How to tap into existing garden gate system?

[olof]

When we bought our house, there was/is an existing gate with remote opening control system in place.

What I would love to accomplish:
A. Replace the garden remote control with a button from the Visonic fob MCT-234
B. Hook Homeseer somehow into the Gate Control Unit (GCU). To allow for event-driven opening/closing of the gate
C. To have the photocell posts communicate to Homeseer as an extra pair of outside sensors

I've uploaded a rough schematic to show the current set-up

Before I start 'bothering' the installation company (who will probably not know) I thought I turn to this forum for some first suggestions on how to proceed

My questions:
1. What type of receiving sensor would need to be installed in the Gate Control Unit to allow for radio input from Visonic's MCT-234?
2. What extra type of kit would need to installed in the Gate Control Unit to capture the sensor input from the photocell posts?
3. What are the best ways to hook Homeseer into the Gate Control Unit and/or the relevant Siedle module?

Thank you in advance for any tips!
Regards,
Olof

Gate overview.png

[Bwired]

That is not easy I guess, you have to know the standard input and output possibilities of your gate device.
Other way is to connect an existing IO module which can be controlled by homeseer (for example ippower or rfxcom IO alike) to the manual swith of the gate. So if the signal is recieved from the visonic transmitter by rfxcom, homeseer gives the signal to the IO module and simulates a manual push.

[Sooty]

I do some of what you mention with my electric gates and Homeseer, however I would be wary about using the Visonic remote for this purpose as in my experience, the range of the MCT-234 is not nearly as good as the other transmitter devices like the MCT-100 for instance. You would have to be sure that the receiver was in range of the intended position of use for the remote.

Some gate controllers I have seen have outputs for the gate(s) status and also seperate inputs for open and close functions, however mine does not have any status outputs and only a single input that toggles the gates between open and closed.

For status, I installed 3 sets of industrial magnetic switches to my gates (2 leaves). These are interfaced back to Homeseer via a Visonic MCT-100 and RFXCOM. One switch is operated when both leaves are together (gates closed) and the other two are wired in series, one on each gate to signal that both gates are fully open. Using a combination of both Visonic signals, the previous state and a bit of scripting Homeseer can see if the gates are open, closed, closing or opening. This setup can also be used to signal a problem. If the gates are not closed and not open for more than x seconds then they must be stuck. It can somethimes happpen in very strong winds that the controller times out before fully opening or closing the gates. If this happens then Homeseer can detect it and try another open / close cycle.

I have 2 sets of photocells. One inside and one outside the gates. These both have spare contacts so again they are connected to another MCT-100 and interfaced to Homeseer. Using a script in Homeseer, I can detect the direction of travel by checking if both beams have been triggered in x seconds and if so which was first to trigger. This only happens if the gates are open.

For control my gate unit requires a 2 second (closed contact) pulse to activate it. Until recently I was using a Home Easy (KaKu) switch module connected to a mains voltage relay to achieve this, sending an on command, then waiting 2 seconds and sending an off command. This was not 100% reliable because the signal was not always received by the KaKu module, so sometimes the relay would be stuck in the closed position preventing any further control. I have now changed the KaKu module for a Z-Wave relay which has an inbuilt timer and of course status feedback. This means that I only need to send one command and it is 99.9% likely to get there.

Not sure if any of the above is of any help.

Paul..

[olof]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the responses. And Paul, definitely helpful!

Some questions for Paul if I may:
1. Do you have any real life experience of what the ranges are of the MCT-100 and MCT-234? The official doc's don't mention anything.

2. Given your set-up, with what device do you open your gate from your car when coming home? The MCT-100 appears not to be a mobile/Fob device.

3. Have you ever looked into Visonic's wireless receiver MCT-304? I came across after looking for info on 'your' MCT-100. The MCT-304 could be put in place of the z-wave relay/Kaku receiver as input receiver. Assuming of course that my Gate control unit allows for additional inputs...

4. How did you manage to weatherproof the MCT-100's?


I will contact the installer and ask him what Input and Output points there are within the Gate Control Unit and/or the Siede Gate module. to be continued...

Thanks again!

Olof

[Sooty]

Some questions for Paul if I may:

No problem.

My setup basically consists of 2 RFXCOM LAN boxes, both fitted with 433 recievers, 433 transmitters and Visonic receivers. One unit is located centrally on the ground floor of the house and the other is located centrally in the attic space. I have found that the MCT-234 keyfobs need to be within 10-15 metres of a receiver to work reliably. All the other Visonic devices I have like MCT-100's, PIR's, shock sensors & smoke detectors etc all seem to have a much greater range. The 2 MCT-100's on the gates are say 35-40 metres from a receiver and have been 100% reliable.

The MCT-100 is a 2 channel transmitter. I use a lot of these connected to various devices to get status information into Homeseer via the RFXCOM plug-in. Although we do have some of the gate controller manufacturers keyfobs, we don't really use them because I also have a GSM relay device http://www.quantekshop.co.uk/gsm%20gate ... oller.html connected to the gate controller. With this device we just call it up from a mobile phone when 2 minutes from home. I have it connected in a way that it only opens the gates, so if they are already open and you dial up it will not close them. We also have a video intercom with an external keypad. The kids will generally use the keypad if they come home from school and there is no one home.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you can use an MCT-304 with an MCT-234 keyfob. You could use it with one of the other Visonic hand held remotes, but that would not solve anything as you would still need 2 devices.

Everything gates related is mounted inside a weatherproof lockable steel enclosure similar to this one http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/ ... Enclosures There is an underground conduit where power and data cables come back to the house for the intercaom etc.

Paul..

[olof]

Paul,

Thanks for the info and links!
It never ceases to amaze me what is possible with home automation and some creativity. I really like the GSM-gate relay setup.

For status, I installed 3 sets of industrial magnetic switches to my gates (2 leaves).

Would you happen to have a link or supplier name for these switches?

The MCT-100 is a 2 channel transmitter. I use a lot of these connected to various devices to get status information into Homeseer via the RFXCOM plug-in

I realise it's off-topic, but just out of curiosity and inspiration, may I ask what other type of devices you have managed to connect to MCT-100's?

Cheers,
Olof

[Sooty]

Yes, the GSM module is the one we use the most. Our gates take about 10 seconds to open which is not really a long time, but this method means there is no waiting.

The switches I used are similar to this one http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-C ... 94cc4854c3 They have been installed for about 3 years now and have never been a problem even when exposed to extreme weather.

I have used Visonic devices extensively over the last few years for a number of reasons. Firstly, they have been 100% reliable for me. They seem to have a very good battery life, range is very good and they are so easy to interface into Homeseer via RFXCOM. There are a couple of downsides, one of which is that the PIR sensors are not really any good for anything other than security. The reason is that they have about a 3 minute reset time after being triggered. This means that they are not really good for triggering lighting events etc. I have tried numerous external PIR sensors over the years with variable levels of success, but about a year ago I installed 3 Visonic Tower MCW external PIR's and I must say that I am very impressed with them. I can't remember having any false triggers on these sensors.

I don't really do anything fancy with the MCT-100's other than returning the status of various devices into Homeseer. I have created an alarm system for my motorhome that uses an MCT-100 to communicate with Homeseer when the vehicle is parked at home. This also notifies Homeseer (via the MCT-100's second channel of a low battery status and automatically switches the mains power on to the vehicle for 24 hours to charge the battery.

Aslo a little off topic:
I have played with automation for a few years and my biggest gripe (along with many others) has been the lack of affordable, easy to retro-fit devices with 2-way communication. I have recently been experimenting with some Jeenodes to replace some of my non-security Visonic devices and the gate status is one of the projects that I will likely switch over to Jeenode. My main reason for this is the 2-way communication.

I am also a new starter on the Z-wave scene. Finally there are some European devices coming to market, so I recently took the plunge and changed some lighting devices from Home Easy (KaKu) to Z-Wave. Assuming the 10 or so modules I am testing prove reliable, then it is very likely that I will switch over all my lighting control to Z-Wave.

Whilst I enjoy tinkering around with a bit of script writing and hardware devices, I do like things to be reliable and not intrusive visually. As an example: I got fed up trying to find a good solution to my heating control that could interface to Homeseer, so 2 years ago I purchased the Honeywell Homtronic manager and 16 HR80 radiator valves. A very expensive choice and only limited integration to Homeseer via an IO module that allows me to set a given lifestyle but it gives me individual room control and the system just works. Again, it has been 100% reliable.

Paul..

[olof]

Peter,

Thank you for the switch info. If my NICE gate controller ends up not having any output, these will then be the switches I will use.

Visonic:
I bought Visonic system/sensors a few months ago but it is, ahem, still in the box.
I find the installation-instructions a bit convoluted and keep putting it off. Probably no big deal once I get going on the installation...

This means that they are not really good for triggering lighting events etc.

Glad to hear the Visonic performs well, somewhat surprised about the above. I was hoping to use them in the house as such and to avoid additional PIR's for solely Homeseer/Lighting events. I was also looking at the external Tower MCW's, but thought their promised performance was just marketing hype.

Z-wave
Earlier this year my first step into Home Automation was to replace some of our light switches with Merten Z-wave. Bought Merten (instead of Düwi or ....) because of their nice designs and (Z-wave) build-quality. They have performed 100% solid, and the wife loves the look of them
(see for example http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=6735

However, combination Merten & Homeseer has one negative. If you have Merten Z-wave installed, all subsequent Z-wave devices regardless of manufacturer need first to be read into the Merten software controller and only then into Homeseer. A bit cumbersome, but no big deal for me. I'm not planning on adding devices every week.
Just hope that for the foreseeable future all new Z-wave devices can be read into Merten software, as the software has not had any new updates for quite a while.

Cheers,
Olof

[Sooty]

We also have a Visonic alarm panel and once you get started it really is not that troublesome to set up. When integrating an existing collection of Visonic devices into Homeseer via RFXCOM , it can be a bit more hassle because you have a bunch of devices showing in the list but you don't know which devices they actually are. I managed this by adding all the devices with no name, activating the tamper on each device in turn and then re naming them. I have an ultra-reliable solid state Homeseer setup that can stay up for many months, but I still don't trust it 100% to look after the alarm functions hence the Visonic panel.

Many motion sensors have the ability to configure the elapsed time with no motion before the no motion signal is sent. This works well with lighting because whilst there is constant motion, the off signal is never sent. The Visonic sensors have a fixed reset time of about 3 minutes and this is not extended if motion continues, so the no motion signal is always sent after the 3 minutes. You can do the logic in Homeseer as I do to control some outside lights on triggering of a TOWER PIR, but its a lot more hassle than having the sensor do it. I get around this by setting an off time of 4 minutes after a trigger. This way every new trigger will cancel any existing off event and add another 4 minutes of on time. Not perfect but it works in a fashion.

I have 4 of the Tower MCW's and I can say that they have been 100% reliable for me. Honestly, I can't remember getting any false triggers from them.

Paul..

[olof]

Paul,

I've taken the liberty of copying your info on Visonic PIR & Homeseer into the Visonic forum section. Hope you don't mind.
http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6865

And I promise to get started on installing the Visonic.

I get around this by setting an off time of 4 minutes after a trigger. This way every new trigger will cancel any existing off event and add another 4 minutes of on time. Not perfect but it works in a fashion.

Will keep this tip definitely in mind!

Cheers,
Olof

[Sooty]

Not a problem, however some of the information I posted was incorrect as pointed out by Rene in your other thread. The resetting of the Visonic PIR sensor in Homeseer appears to be done by the RFXCOM plug-in and not the sensor actually transmitting the no motion signal. It seems that the PIR sensors (or at least the ones I have) do not always go to sleep after a trigger and can indeed be re-triggered many times within a short period of time, however this is not consistent and sometimes the same sensor will not re-trigger until after it has slept for x seconds.

Paul..

[olof]

Dear Paul ("Sooty"),

For control my gate unit requires a 2 second (closed contact) pulse to activate it. Until recently I was using a Home Easy (KaKu) switch module connected to a mains voltage relay to achieve this, sending an on command, then waiting 2 seconds and sending an off command. This was not 100% reliable because the signal was not always received by the KaKu module, so sometimes the relay would be stuck in the closed position preventing any further control. I have now changed the KaKu module for a Z-Wave relay which has an inbuilt timer and of course status feedback. This means that I only need to send one command and it is 99.9% likely to get there.

As I'm stumped on how to tap into the Siemens analog gate phone in order to open/close it; may I ask you:
1. What was the Z-wave relay that you bought?
2. How did you physically hook into the PC running Homeseer?
3. Which plug-in or script within Homeseer would be relevant?

On the signalling side (whether gate is open/closed) I will use Visonic MCT-100 and RFXCom. Will be installing it in the next few weeks.
Cheers,
Olof

[Sooty]

Hi Olof,

1. I use the Fibaro FGS211 switch / relay. This device can be used because it has a dry (no voltage) contact between the I and O terminals.

2. The Fibaro device is controlled by Homeseer through the normal Homeseer Z-Wave interface in my case via an Aeon Labs USB stick. Setting parameters 3 and 4 on the Fibaro relay makes it automatically turn off after x seconds. In this state, sending an on or off comand wil cause the relay to trigger for the preset number of seconds. The Fibaro device is located at the gates and the I and O teminals are connected to my gate controllers pulse trigger input.

3. I created my own script to check the current status and open or close the gates. So calling the script from a Homeseer event with the "close" parameter will check to see if the gates are already closed. If not then a pulse is sent via the relay to activate the controller.

If you send me an email to "paul dot huddlestone at gmail dot com" I will send you the script and try and talk you through how it works.

Paul..

[olof]

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your quick reply. I use Homeseer, RFXCom and Z-wave (Merten), but have not used the Fibaro yet.

I finally had my meeting with the gate people today. After talking to the gate technician today & reading his gate installation manual which I just received, I think the following terminals on my gate mechanism are relevant and accessible (one terminal connection is one wire).
May I ask if I understand it correctly?

Terminal 19: open gate pilot light output: Gate Opening = fixed light. Gate Closing = flashing light
Connecting a MCT-100 into this output terminal would do the trick? I.e. in combi with RfXCom/Homeseer of course

Terminal 23: Photo cell input ("safety device input"). N.C. contact type.
Note: my current 2 gate photocell detectors (1 inside gate, 1 outside) are now series connected to this terminal. That I want to keep. In addition however, I want to look into splicing the photocells wires apart and hooking them into an MCT-100 (or 2x MCT100?). That way, I gain an extra pair of movement detectors outside their direct gate safety function.

Terminal 26: OPEN input. N.O. contact type
Terminal 27: CLOSE input. N.O. contact type
Terminal 24: STOP input. N.C. contact type
Terminal 22: common input for above terminals
Regarding OPEN, CLOSE, STOP & Common, do I understand correctly that I can realize this with 2 Fibaro FGS211's?

In addition, I will probably also end up using a magnetic switch on the actual swing-gate so as to determine actual position of the gate (open or closed).

I will sent you a Mail regarding your Homeseer script. Thanks!

Cheers,
Maarten aka Olof

[olof]

Paul,

After posting my last post, I realized you've already answered some similar questions in another discussion thread
domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=13& ... ate#p52716

I guess I will order a couple of FSG211 and see how far I can get.

cheers,
Olof