Xanura vs. Marmitek

by **MindBender** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:38 pm

Can anyone explain the differences between the Xanura micro modules and the ones sold under the brand Marmitek?

Personally I feel a bit reluctant to tie anything with the name Marmitek into my houses electrical system, while I feel fully confident using Holec branded material. But the modules look exactly alike and there's not much intelligence inside to make a real difference.

by **Bwired** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:00 pm

Hi

Check this topic [url]/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11[/url], second post, Technical compare information between X10 from o.a marmitek and A10 from Xanura (Eaton Holec)

www.bwired.nl Online Domotica, Home Automation house.

by **MindBender** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:13 pm

Thanks Pete, but I'm just not satisfied with that answer [:p] I want facts, not rumors or opinions.

Even though the specifications are different, the modules may still be the same inside. The SAIX unit is said to use the A10 protocol and the Marmitek uses the X10 protocol. Since A10 is backward compatible with X10, the Marmitek may very well use the A10 protocol without specifying it for intellectual property reasons. After all, manufacturing two different products is much more expensive than underselling the cheaper version.

But no worries, people; I will investigate this and keep you posted! (Since no one else does it [:p])

by **Bwired** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:35 pm

Hi Again,
The comparison between A10 and X10 on this forum are the specifications I got from Xanura!
Regards Pieter

by **MindBender** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:44 pm

Breaking News: There is most definitely a difference between the Xanura SAIX module and the Marmitek AWM2.

They use the same injection molds for the housing, but another color of plastic.

They even use the same PCB, but the SAIX module has an extra triac installed (ST Micro, BTA16, TO220 housing).

Both use a Microchip PIC processor for the intelligence, but the labels stuck to them have different numbers written on them: 70AC for the AWM2 and 70AB for the SAIX. Now usually these numbers are checksums, but that would either mean that there's only one bit different in both versions, or that it's a big coincidence (1:65536). There's probably a flag somewhere in the software specifying which unit it is, while all functionality is present.
I didn't check if I can read out its contents; PIC processors have internal security measures to prevent that, so I didn't even try. There are test pads on the back of the PCB and I'm sure the in-circuit-programming pins of the PIC are connected to some of them. These are probably used to program it.

The AWM2 unit uses a PIC16CE625, which is a 'one time programmable' chip. I didn't remove the label of the SAIX unit, but I assume the same processor is used.

Photo of SAIX internals: [url="/uploaded/MindBender/200653194030_SAIX.JPG"][img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] SAIX.JPG[/url] 26.83 KB

Photo of AWM2 internals: [url="/uploaded/MindBender/200653194116_AWM2.JPG"][img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] AWM2.JPG[/url] 26.9 KB

by **Consultant** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:15 am

The Marmitek module AWM2 has no triac and therefor this unit can only switch resistive loads up to 16A. When switching inductive or capacitive loads you must derate this specification (inductive max. 5A, capacitive max. 1A).
The Xanura modules SAIX and SAX1 can switch all types of loads up to 16A (even motors are tested up to 16A with inrush currents up to 9x the nominal current! KEMA certified). This is an unique feature of the patented Xanura modules.
So be care to use Marmitek modules switching heavy non resistive loads.

by **MindBender** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:59 pm

Now that I've bought so many Xanura modules, I didn't care very much about the two Marmitek AWM2 modules I bought for testing. At first I wanted to discard them because I wanted Xanura devices exclusively.

But yesterday I started playing with the Marmitek AMW2 a little more and I've discovered that is has a couple of undocumented features:
Just like the Xanura SAIX, it too supports 'All lights off', 'Auto acknowledge' and 'Status request', while these features are not mentioned in the manual.

Update: I have tried 'Auto power' and 'Load status' function and those too are supported.

by **Han** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:58 pm

Hello Mindbender,

Can you do me a favour and check if those units (marmitec as well as holec) transmit during the zero crossings of all 3 possible phases?
Thanks for your help.

Han Alink

by **Consultant** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:15 am

Hello Han,
I know, both modules types do only transmit during one phase.
You have to use a active phasecoupler/repeater for communicating over all three phases. This is much better for the signal level (passive couplers always attenuate the signal to other phases).

by **MindBender** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:00 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Consultant
 Hello Han,
I know, both modules types do only transmit during one phase.
You have to use a active phasecoupler/repeater for communicating over all three phases. This is much better for the signal level (passive couplers always attenuate the signal to other phases).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's what I'm expecting too: Both companies sell ~500 Euro phase coupler and I don't think that's just a passive common mode coupler...
Though I'd be happy to hook up my oscilloscope to the mains to see what they do, but that will have to wait because I'm extremely busy these two weeks.

by **Gourmet** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:36 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MindBender
 Breaking News: There is most definitely a difference between the Xanura SAIX module and the Marmitek AWM2.

They use the same injection molds for the housing, but another color of plastic.

They even use the same PCB, but the SAIX module has an extra triac installed (ST Micro, BTA16, TO220 housing).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's wrong, at least for the models I have right now in november 2007.
I didn't open the case of any of my SAIX but I can hear the relay switching. As far as I know a triac doesn't make sound.
The Marmitek documentation says that AW12 is not silent whereas AWM2 is (silent). If the AWM2 has a relay I wonder how it oould be silent.
In conclusion, I don't know if a real AWM2 is silent or not but I can ensure you that the SAIX is not.

In fact that's not very nice from either Marmitek or Eiton because this kind of relay are not very suitable for a sleeping room what I was looking for.

db

db

by **Digit** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:47 am

That's right, about the SAIX. I can hear it too.

I have a Xanura SAIX switching my back door light and i can hear it too, although it makes much less noise than a AW12 (for the 2nd address, switching the garden lights).

The only silent modules i have are S10, but they aren't 2-way...[:(]

by **MindBender** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:59 am

I guess reading is an art too:
http://www.domoticaforum.eu/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41
Summarized: Both units have bi-stable relays. They don't require current to retain their state, even after a power-out. Eaton units have an on-board triac in parallel to handle the rush-in current of the load, preventing spracs on the contacts of the relay to make it more durable. Marmitek doesn't becuase it's patented by Eaton.

If it's silence you're after, get a DAIX10. Though you may hear a hum at low intensities.

by **Digit** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:34 am

Yes, i reaaly think it is an art being able to read all topics on a forum while being a member for only 2 days.
The hard clicking sounds from the Marmitek devices made me decide to not buy anymore of their stuff, BTW.
Maybe a wrong reason, but so be it.

by **MindBender** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:47 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Digit
 Yes, i reaaly think it is an art being able to read all topics on a forum while being a member for only 2 days.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's definitely true. We are finally in the luxurious position where this forum has gathered plenty of useful information. We can't expect new members to read everything before starting to ask questions ;-)

Yet it's very hard to find the answer on a specific question. Perhaps it's time to organize all this information is a more cataloged manner, like a Wiki. Pieter?

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