switching all power sockets and lights

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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:11 pm

here you go, this ad came on marktplaats a little while ago.

marktplaats.nl/a/doe-het-zelf-en-verbou ... =mympBuyer

spoke to the seller and there 24VAC
i don't want to use the otherwise i got all kinds of different voltage that i'd have to switch and have of course.
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby raymonvdm » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:38 pm

Today i made a little progress with my "GardenLightning fuse box" and thought about your project a few times. I have tested the Hager ES220A relais and it is buzzing when powered (which is annoying) :D

Image


The reason about thinking on your project was more XAP800 and rollershutter related. I need to check which cabling you are using for which function. You really used a lot of them :twisted:
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:12 pm

Looks good ;)
I haven't noticed the buzzing sounds but then again its not much of a problem because its all in a cabinet where i build it in.
And i am not going to use these magnetic relays but the pulse type that does not need power to be kept on.

Well about the wiring, i was a bit scared for and when using the XAP that i could get a groundloop or whatsoever because of all the cables , since all the devices have there own cable this will be probably minimized , still there are powerlines next to the cables from the XAP that can give some problems as well, hence i used shielded audio cables for this to hopefully get this solved.
If this still will be a problem then i have to rethink about how to connect all or place other cables for it, also another option could be to connect the shielding from the XAP wires to the housing of the XAP.
Will let you know if all goes oke like planned or that it will be a disaster haha :roll:
But before i am at this point it will be a little while longer since i have little time to work in my house, i actually came back from work today about 3 hours ago and monday the next week starts again , to give you a peak in my time schedule to work on the domotics :?


For the roller shutters, do you mean the ones i am using outside ?
Well these do not use much power, amps are quite low so i used 3 x 0.75 mm2 wires for them.
Going to open and close them with 2 relays since they need a sort of polarisation reversing , not that its possible with AC but it sort of works the same as a DC motor and change + and - for direction.
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby fabian » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:02 pm

i found hager relais to be very noisy as well. That's why i put them on marktplaats after two days of usage :)
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby raymonvdm » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:39 am

I already saw your ad :-)
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:09 pm

got about 55 left at the moment haha :roll:
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:53 pm

I haven't done much work lately , most things are still as they where.
I did manage to connect a bunch of LED strips , still busy with the soldering iron but slowly i am making progress.
Today i picked up some extra solar panels and transformers for my home, 20 x 230W panels and 2 GE inverters.
I do need to make a solarpanel ramp to get all of the panels installed on the roof.

since there are already 15 panels on the roof for energy, i need to make something like this :

Image

It is not hard at all, but then i read something about the angle, in the beginning of the year you have more profit when panels are at a 35 degrees angle since.
The roof measurements are about 13 meter x 10 meter
Somewhere later in june or july the sun stands almost on top of us, so then the angle of 15/20 degrees would be better for a bigger profit.
So my idea is to make it changeable .
Use some strong actuators that can lay them flat at 15 degrees or lower so i can play a bit to see what gives a better profit.
Also it will be nice when there is a big storm coming, i could automate then and lower them so that they are as flat as possible on the roof and the wind does not get hold of them easily.

Any one that thinks this is a crazy thing ? or has some experience with this ? glad to hear it, also have been thinking of placing tubes that contain a fluid so the heat that is generated (and normally also gives a lower power output ) could be used inside the home/pool/etc and at the same time trying to take the panel temperature down so that they improve with the power output.

Image
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby AshaiRey » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:36 am

Actually there are double function solar panels that generate hot water and electricity. Cooling will raise the efficenty of the panels.

About changing the angle.
In my opinion it's not worth the trouble. Better to keep them fixed at 30-35 degrees. The 20 degree angle is only good for a few hours and only for a few weeks a year. At them height of the summer they get so hot that you loose more due to lesser rendement then due to the angle. The convert might tops out also. In the winter it's the opposite. But do the math, what do you miss when the angle is not perfect. You would be surprised about the numbers and just keep it this way.
Example: My roof lays full with 195Wp panels facing South and i had only room for 3 panels more on a flatroof (dakkapel). I didn't know if the roof could hold the 750Kg ballast and is it worth the risk of getting leakage? Or put them on the garage facing East. I did the math and came out that they deliver 80% of what they could. Over a year i would loose about 175Kwh of production. At 21 cent that will cost me 36 Euro a year. Not enough difference for me to risk leakage and getting on top of my house in bad weather. That was 2 years ago and collected data proved that these numbers are actually right.
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:49 pm

Thanks for the input Bram, this does gives another view on things.

I have seen some ratings, talking about 5-10 % loss with the angle, first i found something nice thats the solar seeker.
The site that i found had a system like that sitting on a pole that could pan and tilt, following the sun for maximum power generating.
Then i thought well maybe since with 35 Panels this would be a immense construction and wind catcher , why not do the part that i described in the post only movable up/down.

But you are probably right , the percentage that i loose is not to much in total.
But, the inverters have a efficiency of "just" 94% so this is a loss already, and the loss off the connectors/cables would play a part as well.
Also that the panels do not give 100% in the netherlands is another point, hence i thought this would be a good idea.

The part of having it movable for the wind still sounds good to me, the house is almost free and lays next to open fields, so it can get pretty ruff when there is a storm going on.
Not sure how i must do a calculation to see what contra weight i should use to prevent the panels to lift up and fly away when the wind goes beneath them.

Allot of things to think off, and not to forget the fact that is fun to make suchs a thing and if it works its even more fun :mrgreen:
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby AshaiRey » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:51 pm

vincenttor wrote:But you are probably right , the percentage that i loose is not to much in total.
But, the inverters have a efficiency of "just" 94% so this is a loss already, and the loss off the connectors/cables would play a part as well.
Also that the panels do not give 100% in the netherlands is another point, hence i thought this would be a good idea.

The part of having it movable for the wind still sounds good to me, the house is almost free and lays next to open fields, so it can get pretty ruff when there is a storm going on.
Not sure how i must do a calculation to see what contra weight i should use to prevent the panels to lift up and fly away when the wind goes beneath them.


To give you an idea of the balast you need have a look here http://www.zonnepaneel-info.nl/nl/ballasttabellen.html

Let me help you with the efficiency part.
A smaller angle of 15° will result in a drop of 5% in efficiency compared to what they deliver at 36° (source: https://www.zonnepanelen.net/ballast-zo ... -plat-dak/ )
The Wp rating is the rating the panel could produce under lab conditions. But say that one panel produce a solid 200W. Due to cable losses and inverter losses you are at 85% (never count yourself rich!!) So that will be 170W pure energy.
Or at a less optimal angle it will be 200W with 5% loss due to the angle is 190W * 85% = 161.5W
That's a difference of 8.5W times 35 panels = 397.5 or just say 300W loss (0.3KWh)
Let's assume that they produce 5 hours at max efficiency and output for 250 days a year.
5 hours X 250 days X 0.3KWh X 0.21 Euro = 78.75 Euro loss a year.

Is it worth it? That's up to you. You seems to have a nose for bargains on actuators and material :D
Bram
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:49 pm

Well, the idea with the actuator is gone.
Not only that the loss is not that big, but the structure will be massive.
I also have to place the panels at a angle like 12 degrees maybe 15, why ?
Well if i want to build this solar ramp and place 32 panels it will be something like 6.4 m X 8 m = 51,2 m2 and the height if i have done it correctly at 30 degrees angle will be to high :roll:

Since i am located in Zone 1 from the map, 29,5 m/s wind speed
Category 2 - little to no buildings and some tree's in the area

And the building is +/- 10m high

The weight per m2 i must have to keep everything steady on top of the roof is : 105 KG/m2 but this is at 30 degrees.
I am not sure how to calculate this when building a ramp ,thats bigger and more heavy.
I think its better to contact a constructor that can do the calculations, closing up the side and frond of the structure makes it allot lighter with the ballast part.

So i am not sure in what way i can use the info on the sites you gave me from the weight that needs to be used.
Tomorrow i am going to the archives to hopefully find the drawings from my house and the calculations , if not i have to get someone over to check whats possible.
I was a bit confused with the roof in my garage , thats just metal beams with a metal profile plate with isolation in it, the roof of my house is from Concrete so i am not so worried that this will drop.
But this part of the house / roof i want to use later on to sit in , instead of sitting in the garden.

Image
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:56 pm

I have done some work on the system again and several other components.
I needed to redo the heating system since the previous owner ( his profession was plumber) has connected it wrong.
When i had a mechanic coming over that specialized in "green" heating systems the first thing he said is that its a miracle that they could get the house at a certain temperature.
I will not list all the problems here but one of the biggest if you ask me is to connect the cold water to the output of the warm water on the heating pump.... also the solar boiler was connected wrong with actuators on it that didn't work , resulting in no water coming from the solar system.

How you ask ? not sure , its a miracle that he was a plumber and got work :roll:
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Here i changed the pipes, luckily i could borrow this upenor machine to crimp the connectors on the white hose otherwise i had to use copper and since he did used uponor tubes it made it a bit more easy.
Connectors etc however are pretty expensive :shock:

Image
After i was done, this is the second floor in the garage , also placed a faucet in case i plan to use water upstairs.

Another pretty important thing he forgot to add is the thing you see here, inlaat combinatie, don't know if there is a english word for it :wink:
This has to be placed as close as possible to the CV or in my case the first in the line, solar boiler.
I believe there is even a rule in the law that it is necessary.
So i mounted one.
Image
there is a sewer pipe to drain the water that comes out of it.

All kinds of pumps and stuff placed between the system that are unnecessary.
Image

And its still a bit messy as you can see, need to replace the pipes for plastic pipes HDPE since these contain the cooling liquid going in the source into the ground and because of condensation , waterdrops will hang beneat this steel pipe and start to oxidate.....
Image

I did got a wire in the corner , planning to connect some temperature sensors on the pipes coming out and going in the heathpump.
Image

I have been thinking for a while how to connect or hang the led strips in the cove in the living room and other rooms, i cut some steel plates my dad had laying around ( made them 40 years ago as dividers for his assortment boxes :) ) and now i am using them as little plates that u mount with double sides sticky tape.
I stick them on the plastic holders that hold the LED strips , these i stick on the magnets i mounted on the cove.
Image

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This way i can replace parts of the led strip ( 2.5 Meters) a time if some leds are broken.
Coming weekend i can continue ;)
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby marcelr » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:11 pm

Another pretty important thing he forgot to add is the thing you see here, inlaat combinatie, don't know if there is a english word for it


Safety group is the english term.
Maybe I missed it (can't really see it in the images), but make sure to have a sewer connection for your safety group. It will spill water every now and then.

About the solar power output: You can easily calculate the effects of angle, orientation, position on the globe etc. in http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php#
Just put in your peak power, address, angle of panels, orientation (north, east, etc), and the site will give you a fairly accurate estimate of the energy yield of your solar power plant (with or without tracking mechanism).

grtz,

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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby vincenttor » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:47 pm

Thanks for the info Marcel,
i thought i had written it about the sewer part, should have been below the picture with the holes in the ground and the hammer drill next to it.
This is the hole for the sewer pipe with a siphon piece in it for the smell.
Thanks for pointing out anyway :wink:

The solar panels, well i have done some calculations and the max angle i can do is about 12 degrees with a big solar ramp thats 6.4m wide and 8m long.
otherwise the height is to much, its already with these measurements something like 1.8 Meters high at the highest point of course.
Went to the municipality archives to make copies from the drawings of my build and allot of calculations.
Still reading and searching to find the value's what i can put for max weight on my roof, next to the snow calculations that they already counted.
I do not want to have the risk when i place 5000Kg for example and the roof is calculated for snow at 5500 KG that when it does snow suddenly the roof collapses.

There are allot of calculations in the documents and allot of them have been written by hand, you can guess it already, most is barely readable so i am not sure where or what i am looking at.
So, for now, to be continued...
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Re: switching all power sockets and lights

Postby raymonvdm » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:48 am

I don`t think my wife would NOT be amused if i used the kitchen as a workbench, but you may not have this issue :twisted:

Which led strips are u using because it looks tidy using that strip. Would it also be vandalism proof if i would mount it under the kitchen cabinets (down to the floor)? The in house vandal is one year old now and he likes to fiddle around with dad`s buttons. He already knows how to double press an Duwi Z-Wave.ME button :D
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