Solar Energy, anyone?

Forum about Domotica, home automation and saving energy.
User avatar
TANE
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by TANE »

Few years ago i was late for the subsidy
I just call the Eneco
they have no information about this topic.
Another company what will do the subsidy acceptation is:
http://www.senternovem.nl/senternovem/
They told me that the procedure is not yet ready.
Digit
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Digit »

I already heard rumours that SenterNovem will be the only company handling the subsidy, with only 4 offices in the whole country; so the need for camping in front of their door by the time you can actually apply for the subsidy, is not that unlikely.. [:)]
User avatar
TANE
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by TANE »

Only the Office in Zwolle will do the subsidy..:(
User avatar
Snelvuur
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Snelvuur »

i still think the "first come, first served" and then to a maximum is a bit bullsh*t.. if its full what then? the rest off all the people are out of luck again?

// Erik (binkey.nl)
Lennart
Member
Member
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Lennart »

Hi Snelvuur, Digit,

The picture might give you the wrong impression of the size of the inverters. What you see at the bottom of the picture is not the floor of the room, but a piece of wooden board :-). All inverters are located in a niche inside the technical room (where the heating, mechanical ventilation, washing machine, drying machine, etc. are located as well). The equipment takes up two walls of approximately 80 x 80 cm.

@Snelvuur:

A 3 phase installation is really not needed for most systems. Up to 3600 Wp one single dedicated group on a single phase will do. Only if you happen to generate more than 35 amps @ 230 V (=> 8000 Wp), you need a more heavy duty connection to the power grid. Note that the subsidy will only be on systems between 600 and 3000 Wp, so no need for 3 phases. We had 3 phases already installed and I needed more than 1 group anyway, so that's why I decided to put each of our 3 systems on its own phase, but this is really not a requirement. For this, I extended three dedicated groups from the fuse box to the technical room.

More important is the tubing to the roof. Each string needs its dedicated + and - cable. A 3000 Wp system consists of approximately 20 panels. A string usually consists of 3 to 6 panels. So you're looking at approximately 5 strings. That means 5 + cables and 5 - cables. In our case (3 systems, 5700 Wp), we have 12 strings, which means 12 + cables and 12 - cables (!). Each cable is 4 to 6 mm^2, excluding (double) insulation. That takes a lot more tubing than 3 times 16 mm to accomodate... If it's an option, I'd go for a 60 or 70 mm tube to the roof.

@Digit: just do it, you won't regret it! :-) Note that the panels may be financed as "home improvement", as Snelvuur mentioned, which is tax deductable.

Lennart
User avatar
Snelvuur
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Snelvuur »

@lennart: thanks for the bundle of tips and advice, i was thinking about perhaps something like this: http://www.solarnrg.nl/index.php?option ... &Itemid=95

Since i'am only going together with my gf in the house, i would think that should be enough to feed the house in total. (once i get rid of some eager electricity eaters) and maybe something back to the net too. I would think with 25 panels thats +- 70mm tube to the roof, with 2 dedicated groups.

But if i have a system like that, no subsidy for me then? Since its too big?

// Erik (binkey.nl)
User avatar
TANE
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:46 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by TANE »

Part of the e-mail from SenterNovem what was send to me.

Binnen de SDE zijn een aantal subsidiecategorien bepaald, de zogenaamde productiecategorien. De productiecategorien, waaronder ook zon-pv, gaan in 2008 open. Nadere definiring van de productiecategorien volgt met de publicatie van de Ministerile Regelingen van de SDE, naar verwachting in maart 2008.
User avatar
Snelvuur
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Snelvuur »

i think we have to wait then, but if i can get subsidy i'll go for it.. its just too much fun having free engergy. And i like the fact that its pure nature, so i feel less bad that i drive a car (although its not poluting that much compared to other cars) but still its my childrens childrens which have to live with the crap in the future perhaps hehe..

// Erik (binkey.nl)
Lennart
Member
Member
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Lennart »

@snelvuur: the letter from the Department of Economical Affairs to Parliament is quite clear on this.

http://www.minez.nl/content.jsp?objecti ... &rid=45706

Download the file and look at article 9.1:

"De minister verstrekt op aanvraag subsidie aan producenten van hernieuwbare elektriciteit geproduceerd door een productie-installatie voor de productie van hernieuwbare elektriciteit uit zonlicht met behulp van fotovoltasche zonnepanelen met een vermogen groter dan 0,6 kWp en kleiner of gelijk aan 3 kWp, welke zijn geplaatst op, aan of tegen een bouwwerk waarvoor een bouwvergunning als bedoeld in de Woningwet is verkregen."

So, no subsidy on or support for systems larger than 3 kWp. This has practically already been the case during the past few years: according to law, I'm allowed to balance ("salderen") our energy generation and our energy use, up to a maximum of 3000 kWh per year. Above 3000 kWh or 3000 Wp, you are being seen as a "commercial producer". Of course, this is a silly limit. As if the average household doesn't consume 3600 kWh a year. As if more panels don't mean a better environment.

It's even worse: if I feed in more than 3000 kWh a year, I am actually not allowed to balance anymore *at all* (!). So I have to watch my energy generation carefully and actually have to *disconnect* all systems if the 3000 kWh limit comes close... Fortunately, I probably won't feed in more than 3000 kWh a year, because of my continuous power consumption (fridge, ventilation, etc.), so part of the generated energy is consumed locally immediately, without being fed into the grid and thus passing through the meter.

Sigh, I just wish they'd looked a little bit more to our Eastern neighbors: in Germany, hundreds of thousands of roofs are paved with solar panels each year (no strange 3000 Wp limits over there) and the subsidy is all being paid for by the people using "grey" energy in the form of an extra tax. No government budget involved...

Welcome to the strange world of policy makers! They don't mix well with technical innovations nor a sustainable future. If you want to become depressed, I suggest you read further on http://www.polderpv.nl/SDE_regeling.htm and http://www.polderpv.nl/SDE_regeling2.htm. ;-)

Lennart
Digit
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Digit »

@lennart:
You're right, i read those pieces a few days ago, really depressing [:(!]. And on top of that you have to wonder how long this 'policy' will stand; sometimes i get the idea that after an election every policy can be thrown overboard, and not always for a better one...
User avatar
Snelvuur
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Snelvuur »

So in any case, if i fork out 25/30k on my house finance.. i wont get anything back for it? Meaning, i have to keep it up and running for 20/25 years to earn my money back.

Or are you telling me that your allowed to have no more then 3000kWh a year back to the net even though your bigger then a 3000kWh system?

// Erik (binkey.nl)
Digit
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Digit »

The 1st of April is approaching fast now. Any News on this subject? Regarding myself, if everything goes as planned, i'm gonna go for it..[:)]
Bwired
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4704
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Bwired »

Be careful, there is a small budget and I think you are not sure that you get your refund.
User avatar
Snelvuur
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3156
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Snelvuur »

your not sure you get a refund, only a few people. and your only allowed to do a 3kw installation (there is a limit to it) and as far as i know you get money back for sending kwh back into the net. So thats when you -dont- use energy yourself. Since an average household uses more then 3kw (3000 kwh) a year there is really a low percentage what you can send back. In any case, it sucks balls and i'am installing things in my house to be ready, but nothing more then that.

Or at least thats what i know about it..

// Erik (binkey.nl)
Digit
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Solar Energy, anyone?

Post by Digit »

You should consider that maybe it's not all about money in my case. It may surprise you, but there can be other motives to install a PV system. Although of course i'll try to be amongst those "happy few".[:)]
Installations for subsidy are allowed to range from 600 to 3500 Wp from what i've read lately, but correct me if i'm wrong. These 3500 Wp don't have any relation to 3kw(3000kwh), BTW. Again, correct me if i'm wrong.
Post Reply

Return to “Energycontrol & Home Automation Forum”