"Mechanische Ventilatie" - how to automate?

Post by **DJF3** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:24 am

Hi,

Most of the new houses have mechanical ventilation "Mechanische Ventilatie". This is a system where a central ventilation system 'refreshes' the air in your house with special vents in the Kitchen, Toilets and Bathroom.

Problem: The switch is nearly always in the Kitchen (setting: 1,2 or 3 so its never off)

When you're in the shower and it's getting steamy you want it to go to setting 3 --> you'll have to go to the kitchen to do that.

Solution:
Use a combination of X10 products, Sensors and applications to make it remote controllable.

Q: How could this be done?

I did find this solution that works with limited ventilation systems (on 868Mhz) but it needs to be integrated with my Domotica system (HS2,RFXCOM,X10)

Any ideas?

Post by **TANE** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:57 am

DJ,
I'm going to do the same.
Components that I'm going to use.
1 SAIX (for in the ventilation system)
1 Oregon THGR228
HS2
RFXCOM+plugin

I never use the setting 2.
When the air humidity higher than 60% ventilation will go to setting 3 for 30 minutes.
Or just turn it on from any other X-10 senders

Chak

Post by **Lennart** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:07 am

Hi DJF3-2,

Xanura offers an A10 (basically X10) out-of-the-box solution to this problem, using an IMX10 (for selecting the setting, 1, 2 or 3) and two SAIX12 modules (for feeding power into the ventilation unit, switching two aditional live wires that set the setting).

Note that these modules are new on the market. You may also use the modules that these new modules replace (that would be a VIX10 and two SAX1 modules).

Lennart

Post by **DJF3** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:27 pm

Sounds good..

How would you connect that? On my system (Stork Air CMLe) it looks like this:
blue
green
yellow
brown
black (switch wire for medium ventilation)
gray (switch wire for high ventilation)

Ventilation modes:
1-Normal brown are connected (allways on)
2-Medium blue and brown +black are connected
3-High blue and brown + gray are connected

So blue, brown and green/yellow are connected at all times (because the system will always ventilate ('stand 1').

How would I 'translate' this into a SAIX (or LWxx) kind of solution?

The non-domotica solution I found for my ventilation system (Stork CMLe) is:
-Stork RBO (O=receiver) http://www.ventilatie.com/site.php/deeplink/nl/rs_rb
Price: 230 euro
-Stork RBZ (Z=sender)
Price: 65 euro

Post by **TANE** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:36 pm

http://www.domoticaforum.eu/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=561

Post by **Bwired** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:52 pm

And I made such a good search function

If you want the new modules you need the Xanura SAIX12 (2x) and the and the IMX10. Agree with Chak, I never use postion 2.
The old modules will do as well of course!

Post by **RDNZL** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:09 pm

When my ventilator died because of a leaking roof (it was full of water) [:(] I bought an Itho CVE ECO fan 2.

It has a DC motor and uses much less power than my old one.
My old fan was an Itho 220V ac model but I could easily plug in (perilix) the new fan, and still use the switch in my kitchen.

I bought 2 RF remotes with it, one is placed in my badroom, the other I'm going to use to control the fan with my pc/domotics system.

Post by **Bwired** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:17 pm

I have been thinking about replacing my old ventilator (20 years) as well.
This one sounds good, can you tell some more about the price and was replacing it easy? Do you know anything about the frequency on which the remote is working?

Post by **Bwired** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:40 pm

ITHO CVE ECO-FAN 2P combine existing control with remote control

low position (1) [W] 3,2
Middle position (2) [W] 7,5
High poistion (3) [W] 22 - 28

that makes a big difference with my existing old home ventilator which is 84 W on high position (3)
http://www.itho.nl/Assortiment/ITHO/Ven ... -3056.aspx

Post by **Snelvuur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:05 pm

Standard ventilators are more power consuming. You also have eco friendly i think. See also this story

http://www.olino.org/articles/2008/02/0 ... ie-upgrade

about one of those upgrades. Dont forget sound & power.

StorkAir WHR 950
172m3 / uur 59 dB(A)
221m3 / uur 63 dB(A)
365m3 / uur 76 dB(A)

Brink Renovent 400
100m3 / uur 10,2 dB(A)
200m3 / uur 18,3 dB(A)
400m3 / uur 36,3 dB(A)

StorkAir WHR 950
172m3 / uur 82W
221m3 / uur 105W
365m3 / uur 352W

NedAir WTA HR 400
100m3 / uur 35W
200m3 / uur 70W
400m3 / uur 210W

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **RDNZL** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:42 pm

About the CVE ECOFAN, the unit is a bit smaller than my old one, but because it was a bit higher I had to rearrange my pipes.
You have 2 types one of them has a perilex plug, you can just plug it into an old itho non-eco perilex connected fan socket and use the old switch right away.

Because it's made of plastic it's very silent.

The frequency is unknown to me, the manual and package don't tell this.
The chip inside the rf transmitter near the antenna is called K110 B3, couldn't find anything usefull about it. The antenne is a rectangle shaped trace on the circuit board about 2cm by 1cm.

I haven't watched my rfxcom receiver log while pressing a button yet, will test this soon. I can alway connect the buttons of the transmitter to my pc.

You have to pair a new rf transmitter (you can pair upto 20 of them) to the unit in the first minutes after powering on the fan by pussing 2 buttons on the transmitter.

There is also a timer button on it (+10 mins) each time you press it you add 10 minutes to the timer and it starts to blow full speed, after that it goes back to selection 1, very handy.

A half year ago the fan costed me 189 euro and a set containing a rf receiver (print plugs into the fan) and rf transmitter 85 euro at a local shop, later I bought an extra remote control, that costed me 41 euro's, not cheap but domotica isn't and it saves energy.

Post by **Bwired** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 am

Like I told I'm planning to buy a new ventilator. If I have one I can show it to Bert, he can check out if there is an option to integrate in the RFXcom. You can try to contact him as well, perhaps you can lent him the transmitter for a while. If Bert has time and wants to do it of course

Post by **DJF3** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:37 am

Wow.. You're completely right Pieter.. Doing so many searches but I missed this one. The problem must be between keyboard and chair

Only want to do 2 settings (1-low and 3-high) so one SAIX12 should be enough. Because of the 2 settings I could use the IMX10/VIX10 with a 2-way pulsdrukker I guess.

Only having CM11 but that should be no problem with these modules..

Thanks!
bye
DJ

Post by **Hogeterp** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:03 pm

Sorry i made a copy about this sensor i just read i think its interesting.

MOELLER DRAADLOOS SCHAKELSYSTEEM - SENSOREN

Gemengd gas,
OUT: 0-10VDC, 15-24VDC
CSEZ-01/16 109381 1
Uitvoering Type Artikelnr. Verp. eenh.
Luchtkwaliteitssensor VOC 0-10VDC
De luchtkwaliteitssensor meet de actuele luchtkwaliteit en stuurt deze als anologe
waarde van 0-10VDC uit (hoe kleiner de uitgestuurde spanning hoe beter de
luchtkwaliteit is). In tegenstelling tot andere sensoren (bijv. CO2-sensor, deze meet alleen
CO2 en niets anders) kan de gemengde gassensor een zeer groot spectrum van gassen en
dampen herkennen. Zo kan deze bijv. lichaamsgeur, tabakrook, bodemgassen,
reinigingsmiddelen, enz. herkennen en bijvoorbeeld de ventilatie inschakelen. Om de
luchtkwaliteitssensor op te nemen in de draadloos schakelinstallatie, moet de sensor met
de analoge ingang 2-voudig (CAEE-02/01) verbonden worden. De 24VDC voeding van de
sensor zelf wordt dan tevens ook door de analoge ingang verzorgd (Let op: juiste
aansluiting en instelling van de analoge ingang in acht nemen!)
RF02007
Technische gegevens bladzijde 35
10-90% RV, UIT: 0-10VDC ,
PT1000, UIT: -20 - 80C,
15-24VDC

Post by **DJF3** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:50 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Hogeterp
....In tegenstelling tot andere sensoren (bijv. CO2-sensor, deze meet alleen
CO2 en niets anders) kan de gemengde gassensor een zeer groot spectrum van gassen en
dampen herkennen. Zo kan deze bijv. lichaamsgeur, tabakrook, bodemgassen,
reinigingsmiddelen, enz. herkennen en bijvoorbeeld de ventilatie inschakelen.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Kijk, zo'n apparaat heb ik nou nodig op het toilet!

DJ