Noise from UPS and Home Theater

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Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:08 pm

Hi,

I am using xanura modules all over the house, and they are usually pretty reliable. However, a few modules close to my Uninterpretable Power Supply and my Home Theater (A/V receiver, plasma, etc) do not always respond properly. Tests with my PMIX35 show much more noise.

I tried Marmitek filters (FM10), even stacking two together but they don't seem to do anything at all. I also tried a SFX40 and that helped a little but they are quite expensive (especially if you need more than 1) and are not really made for in-between the powerline and a device, but more for the central distribution box (meterkast).

So the question is, what is the best and not too expensive option to effectively filter X10/A10 signal noise?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Bwired » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:38 pm

Thats strange, i dont think there is a better option, perhaps a custom filter?
The xanura and marmitek filters work fine for me, dont take any others brands btw.
I have all my audio video and lcd on 1 xanura filter.
What you can try is to put a svx10 there also to boost the signal, perhaps the signal is low there.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:25 am

Thanks Bwired. Perhaps there is something wrong with my FM10 filters, they are a few years old. I will do some more testing.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Peterpc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:43 pm

Try the Marmitek AFX3.
It works better then the FM10 or AFX2.
But an UPS can realy lower your X-10 signal.
I had a UPS in the past and used 3 x FM10 to let X-10 work.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:47 pm

Thanks, I ordered an AFX3 yesterday to test if there is a difference with the FM10. Your message gives me a bit more hope!
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby fabian » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:53 am

sddroog wrote:Thanks, I ordered an AFX3 yesterday to test if there is a difference with the FM10. Your message gives me a bit more hope!


Any results yet ?

I'm having noice and low voltage issues too. According to my (and i'm guessing many others here) supplier, a AFX3 is the same as a FM10. Just different names due to xanura and marmitek merging.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Bwired » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:51 pm

agree with fabian....
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:37 pm

I haven't received my AFX3 yet, it is delayed a few days. I will let you all know when I receive it and if it makes any difference.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby fabian » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:25 pm

I manged to improve my X10 network today. Maybe some of my actions are of help to you.

My house is powered by a single phase. The distribution board houses 12 power circuits, 3 Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers all filterd by one Xanura SFX40.
So it's: "Single phase > main circuit > main switch > Xanura SFX40 > 3x ECLB > 12 Circuits"

Meassuring with a PMIX35.

All heavy loads have their own circuit breaker and all "heavy load breakers" equally divided over 3 ELCB's.

Today i've moved 4 heavy loads (dishwasher, microwave oven, washer and hVac (Mechanical ventilation) to one ELCB which i moved from the SFX40 directly to the main switch.
The other 8 breakers are divided over 2 ELCB's which are now filterd by the SFX40.

This prevents all interference from the 4 "heavy load breakers" breakers to enter my X10 network.

X10 signal voltage levels improved drastically (~ 160mV to 1500mV), but strangely also trippled the noise levels from ~ 50 to ~ 150. Not sure yet what this means.

All outlet boxes in my livingroom are wired via one junction box (centraaldoos). 4 of them house X10 modules. The distance from the junction box to all 4 modules are almost equal, but 1 module still showed low voltage levels:

Module Tx OFF Tx ON Min Lvl Max Lvl Noise Imp Result
G01 2378 2421 1469 1564 177 6.5 Passed
G02 2408 2394 1608 1669 201 6.6 Passed
G03 2404 2399 284 339 153 6.6 Passed


G03 is placed in a outlet box which is also used as 'junction box' to power the outlet behind my wall mounted plasma tv............... :)

I do know plasma tv's are in the top 3 list of noise/interference appliances, but i always assumed that by switching off the tv with the powerswitch (so not on standby) should physicaly disconnect the power from the tv. It clearly did not.

After unmounting the tv (sigh) and pulling the cable from the socket:

Module Tx OFF Tx ON Min Lvl Max Lvl Noise Imp Result
G01 2465 2461 1554 1615 150 5.9 Passed
G02 2475 2444 1595 1630 165 5.9 Passed
G03 2454 2452 1361 1402 149 5.9 Passed

tv filterd by FM10

G03 2423 2419 1232 1235 132 5.9 Passed


All tests performed from the attic.

It's interesting to see that the plasma is only interfering with G03 while they are all wired via the same junction box and it keeps interfering while it's swithed off.
The distance between the TV and G02 is 30cm, between TV and G03 is 2m. So the tv is only generaing noice/interference via wiring. No noice/interference by radiation.

Guess i'm going to need some micro filter modules :)
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Bwired » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:12 pm

Smartly done to move the havy loads behind the sfx
I cant do that so at my place they are all behind seperate filters.
And yes if device is off and socket is in it still can generate noise.
A rule for X10/A10 that tou need to filter everything what can generate noise and check everything for noise.
Once you have done that and use a good X10 driver (not the homeseer one, that really sucks) you will have a perfect result. My powerline together with A10 runs very smooth and have 3 phase system.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:42 pm

Hi Fabian,

Thanks for your extensive description of what you did. However, I don't think I need to go that far. If I disconnect the UPS all problems are gone and signal levels are all fine. It is just the UPS that is breaking the X10/A10 signals.

I currently use a SFX40 to filter the Home Theater equipment, and the problems with the modules close to the HT have disappeared. The modules on the same circuit as the UPS remain. If the AFX3 doesn't help I might need another SFX40 (and maybe also a SVX10?).

So... to be continued.
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Bwired » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:02 pm

Or a different UPS :)
Which on you have, APC
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:17 pm

I use an APC Smart-UPS 3000VA. I don't like spending another 1000+ euro's just because of the line noise. And there is no guarantee that another brand will be much better...
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby Bwired » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:53 pm

agree, its a big one :)
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Re: Noise from UPS and Home Theater

Postby stefxx » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:44 pm

Received the AFX3 today. Doesn't do anything and is the same at the FM10. Both useless. Even stacking two FM10 and one AFX3 still doesn't make a real change in signal strength.

I moved the SFX40 that I used for my home theater to the UPS. Used the AFX3 for my plasma, and the two FM10 for my A/V receiver.

All Xanura modules now work correctly. Signal levels are ok. Case closed. I will start saving for another SFX40 and use that for all my Home Theater equipment.

However, I was hoping that now my Miele Conn@ctivity work work better as well, but it does not. Maybe I should open another topic for that, it might not be related at all...
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