PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

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PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

Postby r_255 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:54 am

Hello ,

Just got my small plc setup for a few weeks now and i wanted to share my expierence.

My 1st impressions is that everything reacts amazingly fast, with in the blink of an eye

My setup contains:

2 PLC2027 Plugin switch
2 PLC2263 Micromodule 1-Lamp (3-wire) PLCBUS
2 PLC2026 Plugin dimmer
1 PLC1141 USB to pc Interface
Homeseer + stippusplugin.

I started with building in the micromodule into the wall, dismounted the original switches to find out that the micro modules were not that micro and did not fit allong the original switches because of the available space. After the needed re wireing for the 3rd wire that was missin things went on smooth. i remembered those old KaKu switches who where a good replacement for the old ones because of the less space they take.

Before mouting the switches i instaled the plugin for homeseer, switched the modules in programming mode by holding the only button on the micro module for a few second, sended a housecode from the plugin to the module to program it and it worked perfectly.

I repeated this for the other modules and it seemed this was going to be a perfect install. Everything worked fine, dimmers reacted fast... and where going gentle up and there it happed.. the light was flashing rapidly like a ghost was invading my HA system. My 1st idea was a loose wire, but after some investigation it seemed like some device that sends codes over the powerline, as it happens every whole hour, and for sure on the halve at 22:30 22:30. Just a second of 10 the light flashes irregular like it recieves data.

After contacting the company that delivered the plc setup they told me that this filter 4816 DIN PLC would probebly solve my trouble as it seems this data comes from outside of my network. I am still wondering about this buy, as it is about the most expensive part of the plc collection and buying 2 zwave dimmers and a interface cost less.

At the end i am still glad with my plc setup and enthousiastic about its reliablity and fast 2way reaction speed.

Until so far my experience with plc.
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PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

Postby Digit » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:30 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by r_255</i>
<br />Hello ,

After contacting the company that delivered the plc setup they told me that this filter 4816 DIN PLC would probebly solve my trouble as it seems this data comes from outside of my network.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's higly unlikely, cause that would mean someone else is using the same usercode as you do. While the amount of devices is still small, you could consider changing usercode. (much cheaper :-)) Other cause could be very much <b>noise</b> coming from the outside. Much industry nearby or other potential noise generators?
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PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

Postby r_255 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:33 pm

Well i must correct myself on this one, it looks like data to me because of the irregular flashing pattern.. but they stated it more like noise from outside but then in dutch ;) But the filter might be a solution for it.

I dont know where the noise should be comming from, i do know that i got some device that must generate some noise. But some how that makes no sence to me as there is no relation or parralel to the time pattern and these devices.

Also strange to me is that the plugin dimmers dont seem to have this problem. But they told me the micromodules are more sensetive for noise.

Well at least these modules (PLC) only talk to me and don't call home.

I'll try to change the usercode to see if that makes some difference,but i guess that wont do anything against noise ?
thanx for the hint.
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PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

Postby gjniewenhuijse » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:58 am

I also have plcbus II R2263DE One Load Lamp modules and i have the same flashing problems. On some times the lamps gone flashing. But i have installed a filter (PLCBUS 4821) and thats no solution for the flashing problems.

Anyone a solution for this?
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Re: PLC user ( beginner ) expierence

Postby JaapK » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:49 am

I know this is an old topic and the topicstarter may not read this at all, but i'm running into the same problems, and thought it better to continue this thread iso starting a new one.

The problem is not limited to PLCBUS, i'm using Xanura A10 modules that exhibit the same behaviour. What happens is that when i have my lights dimmed they will start flashing to full bright for a couple of seconds. Both DAX10 and DAIX12 modules are affected. The flashing happens at set times during the day, specifically at 22:30 and 23:00, but also at other times.

The problem is (i think) caused by the Decabit signals sent by the powercompany to switch electricity meters from high to low tariff, swicth the streetlights on or off, etc.
What codes are sent and when they are sent can vary, depending on the powercompany.
A description (in dutch) of Decabit is given in this document, page 79 and 80.

The system is somewhat comparable to PLCBUS and X10 in that Decabit datapackets are sent by adding a low voltage but higher frequency (in this case between 180 and 1350 Hz) to the 220V / 50 Hz mains power (as opposed to 120 kHz for X10). Of course the coding is different, so our modules can't make heads nor tails from the Decabit data, but unfortunatly they don't seem to be immune to it either.

The PLCBUS 4816E filter or the FD10 / SFX40 filters for X10 will apparently not filter out the Decabit signals. I presume those filters are simple narrowband filters, only blocking a small portion of the frequency spectrum and letting the 180-1350 Hz signals pass (Edit: just read this article by MindBender, which shows the SFX40 to be a low pass filter, letting everything below let's say 150 kHz pass through unchanged).

So ... One solution might be to move to relocate to an area where you powercompany uses other frequencies to send Decabit data, for which the modules are not susceptible.
If that is too much trouble, the document i mentioned earlier suggests contacting your powercompany, and asking them to place a filter specifically for the Decabit signals.
I have no idea if they can / will do this. If anyone knows more about this i'd love to hear from you.

Finally, there's something odd i noticed in my own setup that might hint to an alternative solution.
I noticed that the lights in one fixture did not seem to flicker when the others did. Almost all fixtures are fitted with 220V halogen bulbs (but low voltage fixtures display the same behaviour).
All the lights and wall outlets in my appartment are all connected to two groups of the electrical system. However, whilst one group has been relatively unchanged, over the years more and more appliances have been added to the other group: computers, tv, stereo installation and numerous switching power supplies. I noticed that the dimmed lights on the overcrowded group are flickering, the fixture that is connected to the other group is not (both are behind DAIX12 modules).

My PMIX35 reports an impendance of 4.5 Ohms for the group suffering from flickering, and 11.5 Ohms for the group without problems. I'm not sure if a groups impendance is a factor in this problem, but it seems likely.
Don't overcrowd.

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