Unforgivable! Plugwise stealing data !!!

Post by **Unit106** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:24 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Reinder
 
The terms from Plugwise protects you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excuse me: http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=dat ... eken&meta=

A piece of paper to protect our data against criminals?

Stap 1: een Powermax Pro installatie ...

Post by **Henk** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:40 pm

re: benchmarking

Interesting of collecting data on let say a household freezer .......and claiming you can do seriously benchmarking on it .....

What will be the value of collecting energy consumption data on an average household freezer ..... without collecting the following information (also very private):

Brand and model of the freezer (volume, year of production)
Setting of the thermostat
Number of times door will be open/close
Environmental condition like ambient temperature / cabinet enclosure
Status of defrosting
Using of the booster defrosting option
Loading percentage
Effectiveness of the door closure
Amount of fresh food to be frozen during a time period. (weekly)
Loading of semi frozen grocery food

Also it will apply on any other household appliance you will need a lot of extra information to interpret the collected energy data, otherwise the data will have limited value and will undermine the benchmarking technique

Is this the next step in the business model requesting and collecting this information from consumer .... may be a little to far

I may misunderstand the process of benchmarking if this is the case pls explain it to me i will be interested for an explanation on it .....

Henk

Post by **Reinder** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:58 pm

Pffff tiring.
Again and again and again...... For Plugwise it is NOT possible to trace personal data!
Please moderator, could you lock this subject. It seems that this post lures incorrect information.

Plugwise can provide their customers with average power consumption data. Than you can compare it by yourself with you own devices. All the rest of the information is not needed when there are enough users. Numbers make it accurate, that's the first knowledge of statistics.

For me, this is my last post on this subject, it seems people don't want to hear the real facts.

Post by **Lempens** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:54 pm

When I place a order on the website of plugwise, then they have my IP adres. When I post data form my plugs the have a sender IP. When the compare these numbers the have Data and the know from who.

Post by **r_255** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:38 am

Reinder, to be honnest you sound a bit like : "kabeltje prik prak, .... heb ik thuis ook !"
Alot of people try to tell you within reason thats its not wanted, and what do you do ?

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:02 am

For plugwise it might not be possible, but for the portal it might. The bottom line is that it collects data which in our eyes is private. You buy a product like a t.v. for its functions, if it would send out data which channel you watch isn't that *MY* personal data? If i buy a cheap t.v. BECAUSE it sends out data, i can understand why its so cheap. But i presume that t.v. would have a big sticker saying it does this.

In the case of plugwise its advertised as cheap, because it does data mining. This however isn't shown clearly... nor is there a option to disable this without voiding the "rules" of plugwise, thus no longer be able to get new firmware.

Dont you think its tiring for us too to get you to see our side? Product is good..

Just change the software, while you install it .. that you must scroll down through 4 pages of disclaimers or something and then you find a "mark" to disallow sending data. Most people skip this part anyways, so you would still have 98% of the users sending the data (and everybody is happy)

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Sooty** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:10 am

I have been reading this topic today and thought that I would just add my 2 cents worth.

If Plugwise collects data without first asking you if it is OK to do that, then this must be wrong, even if it is anonymous data.

If this information is provided on the documentation supplied with the product then you should be able to return the product for a full refund if you do not agree to the terms.

Im not so sure how the law works in Holland, but Im pretty sure that this sort of activity would meet with a sticky end here in the UK. We have some very strict laws governing the sale of goods here.

Paul..

Post by **DJF3** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:10 pm

Here's my 1,2 cents

Correct me if I'm wrong.
<ul>
<li>With a firewall blocking portal.plugwise.com everything will work fine but you just won't get any sw/fw updates?</li>
If that's the case you can block portal.plugwise.com and if there's a sw update you can tweak the DB and provide fake data. After the update you add the firewall rule and you're ok.

<li>This will only be done by freaks like us which (hopefully) are <1% of Plugwise's customer base so they shouldn't really care.</li>
<li>Only usage data is collected and stored, without a link to personal data or IP's. I believe them and they're not breaking the law. Fact is that anything can be hacked and the main issue here has communication.</li>
<li>Maybe plugwise can include some incentive for customers not blocking portal.plugwise.com? ( 5,- off your next purchase, free shipping, free pink fluffy bunnies (huh? [:)]), etc.)</li>
<li>My suggestion remains to allow the sw to block even anonymous data with a hidden checkbox or registry entry. People on the forum will use that, 99% of the customers won't because they're not too technical/don't care.</li>
</ul>

I think this is a good discussion. These opinions (no matter how good or bad) help people to put everything in perspective and form their opinion.

Very often a bad opinion or argument can help you see things differently. At the end you know what you know [:)]

Cheers
DJ

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:47 pm

hidden registry settings, would be fine for me too..

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Reinder** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:50 pm

Plugwise is working on a checkbox.

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:02 pm

then i rest my case, and i am a happy men.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Codeblack** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:56 pm

Anyone knows what the status is of this issue? It seems to me that they are still uploading the data without an option to turn it off.

Post by **Digit** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:57 pm

You can stop uploading, but then you lose customer rights like support and rights on upgrades.
You normally wouldn't buy a product without those rights, so in essence everything is still the same.

Post by **Codeblack** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:09 pm

Sounds like no progress at all, then. And the option to stop uploading, is it still by means of blocking the firewall? Or is it a setting (like the mentioned checkbox) in Plugwise?

Post by **ScaredyCat** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:16 pm

Snelvuur wrote:hidden registry settings, would be fine for me too..

// Erik (binkey.nl)

I had to register just to comment on this. You're being just as bad as plugwise with this "I'm alright Jack" attitude. Hidden setting should not be acceptable at all. This is about privacy not some users knowing a secret way to turn it off and hard luck for those that don't. Privacy arguments are about everyone's privacy not just yours.

Really poor attitude Erik.

ScaredyCat

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