Z-Wave without controller?

Forum and Topics about Z-Wave devices.

Z-Wave without controller?

Postby rhuber » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:51 pm

Hi there!

Although I already read a lot of technical stuff about z-wave, I'm still not sure if I got the basics right: Assuming a very simple Network (e.g. some Switch/dimmer modules like fibaro FGS-221 or TKB Home paddle-switch and some switch/dimmer sockets like BeNext), is it possible to USE it without any additional controllers? Functions I would like to have:

- Group sockets to one or more wall switches/modules -> Sockets shall switch if I press the paddle on the wall
- "ALL OFF" switch
- Scenes (is this even possible without any controller? Couldn't find a scene-switch module...)

To set-up and configure the z-wave network, I have a USB-Stick. I there any (free) software I can use for configuring the z-wave components? Or would the MiniMote (Aeon Labs) be enough to configure those basic tasks?

Thanks in advance for your help!!
Roman
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby Akatar » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:39 pm

you need a controller to add devices to the network.

example:
you can not associate a duwi wand zender to another device
first you have to add them, associate, then you can turn the controller off

what's the reason for using zwave without controller?
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby rhuber » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:01 pm

Ok, thanks!

So after I have all inclusions and associations done, I no longer need a controller? For completing this I can use:
a) Aeon Labs USB-Sticks (and a Software, but which one?)
b) Aeon Labs MiniMote (which seems it can act as a basic controller for the first set up)

Reason for not using a controller is just to simplify things and keep costs down, because it's not my own installation. We decided to use Z-Wave mainly because we don't want to re-wire every socket...
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby Akatar » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:45 am

you can buy a aeon labs stick and download homeseer 3, you can try this for free (for one month) enough time to add all the devices
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby rhuber » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:06 pm

Alright, as I already have an Aeon Labs Stick, I will try my best with homeseer. Just two questions left:

1. Is it possible to use scenes (pre-set dimmer and on/off values) WITHOUT any running controller, after the configuration/association is done? I couldn't find any scene-controllers/switches/modules I can use with a wall-mounted paddle-switch..

2. I like to use Fibaros FGS-221 (2x1.5kW switch). Is it possbile to control the dim-levels of associated dimmer-plugs/sockets (like long-press on the FGS-221), or does this only work with the FGD-211?
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby aleksandyr » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:54 pm

There are free options (like Domoticz) as well; some of them even run on really cheap hardware (like the Raspberry Pi) if you want. Works with your stick; no other hardware required.

1. No; you need some kind of controller - slave (i.e. not controller) devices can't cause scene changes without a controller.

I'm not sure I 100% understand what you're trying to do, but one option is http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032ZFHTY - it's a secondary controller, so you need to set up scenes using a primary controller first, but after that you could disconnect the primary controller. (This particular item, while kind of expensive, also controls a single load so it can be used to replace a paddle switch and add the control buttons.)

2. The FGS-221 has some dimmer-centric controls - can you describe more specifically what you want to have happen?
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby uAlex73 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:55 am

You can run a Z-Wave network without a controller, but that makes it slightly unmanageable. Depending on the device, it can send a BASIC_SET out via the association/group command. Most software like open-zwave assigns only the controller to it, but if you add another Z-Wave node in the group, and the device supports the CommandClass Basic, it should work. In regards to scenes, there are scene controllers and scenes in open-zwave, i need to check my notes, but those aren't related to eachother. The open-zwave scenes still require an operational controller.

The only wat to easily setup a network without a Z-Wave USB controller, is to use e.g. the Aeon Minimote, then you can configure a button to send a basic command to another device (it is called scenes in its manual). There are also some other portable controllers out there, but i don't have experience with them.
DomotiGa / Z-Wave / RFXCom / Visonic PowerMaster / Home Assistant / Zigbee2MQTT / DSMR Reader / Toon1 (rooted)
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Re: Z-Wave without controller?

Postby rhuber » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:34 am

Unfortunately I have to bring up this topic again. As mentioned earlier, we have a very simple Setup (about 5 Fibaro-Dimmer and 3 BeNext Wallplug-Dimmer). The secondary switch on each the Fibaro Dimmers directly associated to one Wallplug. For setup, I used the Aeotec Z-Stick S2 and Domoticz. After setup, the main Controller (Z-Stick) was removed.

Now to my problem: Switching/dimming the Wallplugs with a press on secondary Fibaro-switch works as expected, but there is a huuuuge delay. Sometimes more than 10 seconds, thus the system is not really usable now. What could cause the delay, if there's no main controller? The distance between the Fibaro Dimmer (Sender) and the Wallplug (Receiver) is only about 3 meters.

Is it possible that the missing main controller causes the delay? E.g. each device first tries to contact multiple times the main controller, which is not possible, before sending out the direct association? If yes, how can this problem be solved?
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