Outdoor light sensing, how do you do it?

[olof]

hello there,

There have been a few burglaries around my neighborhood, so I´m re-evaluating my own house situation. One of the things I want to do is change my outside lights to include movement sensors.

Ideal situation:
1. lights turn on (and off after x minutes) when detecting movement. Preferably also active even if my HA system is down..
2. AND lights can be turned on /off through z-wave

Current situation is only (2). Just curious how others have accomplished this?

My hardware components:
- Homeseer Pro 2
- RFXCom
- Visonic Powermax
- Z-wave

Some ideas, but I think they do not achieve the ideal situation...
A. standard outdoor lights with build-in-PIR & adding a Fibaro relay inserts (FGS-212). I assume I place the Fibaro between the movement sensor and the lamp. But if the Fibaro has been turned off by Homeseer then the movement sensor can´t turn on the lamp. Right?
B. using a Zwave outside PIR but do they exist for European z-wave?

Thanks in advance for any tips

Cheers,
Olof

[vincenttor]

what you say is possible, but do not place the relay between the wire that comes from the movement sensor.
probably most of these have a LDR build in so they only work at night.
What you do is (overbrug) place it before the PIR/LDR so when you turn on the relay it will not turn of the movement part or LDR but just take the power thats already on those wires and "overbrug" both of the other components.
Hope you understand what i mean, its easier to explain in Dutch i guess.

So i other words, you have to use the wires that normally power the light, and power the PIR/LDR and "overbrug" them with your relay


When you have done this , the light can be switched on in day time and night time and stay on when you pulse the relay.

[olof]

Hi Vincent,

Thanks for your quick reply. I´m having trouble understanding your exactly. Could you perhaps give me 1-2 sentences in Dutch? If not allowed, perhap a PM?
Thank you in advance!!
Olof

[vincenttor]

hmm hope you can read it, and i have drawn it correctly

But this should work, depends also a bit on what kind of PIR , if 1 or 2 wires are used for switching.
It is not very difficult to do but i am probably not the right teacher haha.
http://www.vsltechniek.nl/relay/relay.html

if you still do not get it you can pm me and ill pass you my number of skype account whatever you want.

[olof]

Hoi Vincent,

That is brilliant way of explaining it! I enjoyed watching you draw

Thanks for taking the time!

As I´m not experienced in electrical matters, please allow me to ask a (dumb) question, I noticed you draw 2 + wires from the 12V power source to the Zwave relay. Why?

In any case, I now have the basic concept so now I can dig in and learn more about the Fibaro relay connection points vs. your diagram.

Cheers!
Olof

[vincenttor]

I am not sure how the Zwave relay device is powered itself,
so i thought i draw a wire that is being used for the switching for the LED , and 1 for powering the Zwave device.
You can also leave that wire ofcourse and make a little bridge from the switching + contact to the + power for the zwave.
And no , im no electrical wonder as well ;(

[Phaeton]

You might be over enginering or i dont fully understand the needs. Havent watched vincentor his video. But what came to my mind first was. Use module to switch. Place this one outside to track movement: http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor. You associate it directly with the module(s). And through settings of the movement detector you probably can tweak sensitivity and time lights stay on.

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[Phaeton]

The motion detector is ip20 and will/is available (soon)

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[vincenttor]

That's a solution, but like he describes that when the ha system is offline or broken.
The light should be able to respond when motion occurred.
I am not known at all with zwave products so maybe it is programmable in some way into these devices, if not this will be not a great solution for what he wants.

If you place a pir that's readable on the computer you can make more events like recording cctv etc.

[Phaeton]

This is both. If you directly associate you do not need a server in between. But you can use one in between. I use a motion sensor this way. Rest via server.

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[olof]

Hi Phaeton,

Thanks for the info. I agree that an outsize-rated Z-wave PIR would be the best & simplest answer (Vincent, it was mentioned as option B in my original message). However until you mentioned this Aeotec Multisensor-6 thing, I thought there was no outside-rated European Z-wave PIR's.

I went and looked a bit more closely on the Aeotec Multisensor-6. IP-20 is not really weatherproof, but it is better than nothing...However, on their website http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor, I found this little text:

Outdoor sensor.
Use outdoor intelligence. IP20 rated, you can use MultiSensor 6 outdoors by disabling its motion sensor and usings its 5 other sensors.

So the one thing I need outdoors, Aeotec suggests to disable it. Sigh....
Would love to hear from anybody who has used its motion sensor anyways outside. How it performances is in practice.

As a side note, a while ago I experimented with using indoor Z-wave PIR's in waterproof enclosures for outside use. It didn't work... the transparent enclosure impacted the PIR performance, as did condensation on rainy days. Cold periods affected the battery duration. And I got a lot of false alarms (falling leaves, wind, shades, rain, etc...).

to be continued...

Thanks again for your help and thinking!

[Phaeton]

Ahh i didnt read that sentence. Maybe i will still buy one and just try. I think about it and if so ill report back

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[olof]

If you do end up trying one, please let me (and others?) know your experiences!

thanks
Olof