Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

This Forum is about the Opentherm gateway (OTG) from Schelte

Moderator: hvxl

Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby jvwdev » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:13 pm

Boiler: Intergas Kombi Kompact HRE 28/24 A
Thermostat: Intergas Comfort Touch

I upgraded from a Honeywell Round on/off to a new thermostat which supports OpenTherm.
The thermostat requires smart power support, my boiler also supports this (Intergas boilers that have been built after feb. 2017).

In monitor mode all works fine, as if the OTGW isn't there, but then I'm unable to read any messages.
I've read on the forum here that this is expected. In gateway mode, when I first connect the thermostat and afterwards turn on the boiler, the devices are able to communicate, but eventually the thermostat disconnects.
The thermostat shows an OT error on screen.
When testing I also have seen the thermostat disconnect after requesting the model of the boiler and other times it doesn't fail there.

Code: Select all
23:09:07.633068   OpenTherm Gateway 5.1
23:09:07.641134   Command: SC=23:09/6
23:09:07.649927   Command: SR=21:11,20
23:09:07.655061   Command: SR=22:7,229
23:09:07.660197   Thermostat disconnected
23:09:07.726583   SC: 23:09/6
23:09:07.733888   SR: 21:11/20
23:09:07.743091   SR: 22:7/229
23:09:08.608396   R00000000   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000000 00000000
         - CH enable: disabled (0)
         - DHW enable: disabled (0)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:09.619664   R00000000   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000000 00000000
         - CH enable: disabled (0)
         - DHW enable: disabled (0)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:10.612690   R00000000   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000000 00000000
         - CH enable: disabled (0)
         - DHW enable: disabled (0)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:11.101130   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:11.123229   R100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:11.141457   Thermostat connected
23:09:11.464811   High power
23:09:12.283891   Low power
23:09:12.330353   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:13.135772   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:13.562496   High power
23:09:14.383417   Low power
23:09:14.429737   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:15.235059   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:15.708870   High power
23:09:16.499294   Low power
23:09:16.544702   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:17.335932   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:17.775195   High power
23:09:18.579576   Low power
23:09:18.625965   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:19.432678   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:19.859470   High power
23:09:20.679432   Low power
23:09:20.726534   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:21.533439   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:21.959798   High power
23:09:22.780780   Low power
23:09:22.827573   T100201AD   Write-Data   Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:22.985194   BD00201AD   Write-Ack    Master configuration (MsgID=2): 00000001 173
         - Smart power: supported (1)
23:09:23.080295   High power
23:09:23.760449   T00030000   Read-Data    Slave configuration (MsgID=3): 00000000 0
23:09:23.888864   B400341AD   Read-Ack     Slave configuration (MsgID=3): 01000001 173
         - DHW: present (1)
         - Control type: modulating (0)
         - Cooling: not supported (0)
         - DHW: instantaneous (0)
         - Master pump control: allowed (0)
         - CH2: not present (0)
         - Remote water filling: not available (1)
         - Heat/cool mode control: heat (0)
23:09:24.124783   T807F0000   Read-Data    Slave product version (MsgID=127): 0 0
23:09:24.295400   B707F0000   Unk-DataId   Slave product version (MsgID=127): 0 0
23:09:24.516456   T107E010F   Write-Data   Master product version (MsgID=126): 1 15
23:09:24.689846   B507E0000   Write-Ack    Master product version (MsgID=126): 0 0
23:09:24.926849   T00000000   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000000 00000000
         - CH enable: disabled (0)
         - DHW enable: disabled (0)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:25.019814   BC0000000   Read-Ack     Status (MsgID=0): 00000000 00000000
         - Fault indication: no fault (0)
         - CH mode: not active (0)
         - DHW mode: not active (0)
         - Flame status: flame off (0)
         - Cooling status: not active (0)
         - CH2 mode: not active (0)
         - Diagnostic indication: no diagnostics (0)
         - Electricity production: not active (0)
23:09:25.257746   T00390000   Read-Data    Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 0.00
23:09:25.401291   BF0390000   Unk-DataId   Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 0.00
23:09:25.410730   AC0395A00   Read-Ack     Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 90.00
23:09:25.668197   T00110000   Read-Data    Relative modulation level (MsgID=17): 0.00
23:09:25.794379   BC0110000   Read-Ack     Relative modulation level (MsgID=17): 0.00
23:09:26.063203   T80640000   Read-Data    Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000000
23:09:26.189806   B40640003   Read-Ack     Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000011
         - Manual change priority: enable overrule (1)
         - Program change priority: enable overrule (1)
23:09:26.214947   A40640000   Read-Ack     Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000000
         - Manual change priority: disable overrule (0)
         - Program change priority: disable overrule (0)
23:09:26.457798   T90E61500   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 5376
23:09:26.598621   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:26.850734   T90E60901   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 2305
23:09:26.992934   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:27.245336   T90E61E02   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 7682
23:09:27.403357   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:27.656087   T10E60503   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 1283
23:09:27.800461   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:28.050127   T90E61D04   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 7428
23:09:28.207726   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:28.445907   T90E62C05   Write-Data   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 11269
23:09:28.603477   B70E60000   Unk-DataId   Message ID 230 (MsgID=230): 0
23:09:28.841042   T00110000   Read-Data    Relative modulation level (MsgID=17): 0.00
23:09:29.001010   BC0110000   Read-Ack     Relative modulation level (MsgID=17): 0.00
23:09:29.235133   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:29.409083   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:29.629858   T00000300   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000011 00000000
         - CH enable: enabled (1)
         - DHW enable: enabled (1)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:29.804181   BC0000300   Read-Ack     Status (MsgID=0): 00000011 00000000
         - Fault indication: no fault (0)
         - CH mode: not active (0)
         - DHW mode: not active (0)
         - Flame status: flame off (0)
         - Cooling status: not active (0)
         - CH2 mode: not active (0)
         - Diagnostic indication: no diagnostics (0)
         - Electricity production: not active (0)
23:09:30.039190   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:30.211802   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:30.431541   T00390000   Read-Data    Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 0.00
23:09:30.527054   BF0390000   Unk-DataId   Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 0.00
23:09:30.537050   AC0395A00   Read-Ack     Max CH water setpoint (MsgID=57): 90.00
23:09:30.780095   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:30.905142   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:31.126521   T90011F03   Write-Data   Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 31.01
23:09:31.221073   B50011F03   Write-Ack    Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 31.01
23:09:31.473486   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:31.600854   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:31.867995   T10181511   Write-Data   Room temperature (MsgID=24): 21.07
23:09:32.010632   BD0181511   Write-Ack    Room temperature (MsgID=24): 21.07
23:09:32.262865   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:32.404861   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:32.671954   T900E6400   Write-Data   Maximum relative modulation level (MsgID=14): 100.00
23:09:32.814685   B700E0000   Unk-DataId   Maximum relative modulation level (MsgID=14): 0.00
23:09:33.068626   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:33.209812   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:33.462834   T90101500   Write-Data   Room setpoint (MsgID=16): 21.00
23:09:33.620276   B50101500   Write-Ack    Room setpoint (MsgID=16): 21.00
23:09:33.860471   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:34.014379   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:34.251777   T80190000   Read-Data    Boiler water temperature (MsgID=25): 0.00
23:09:34.411229   B40191D1E   Read-Ack     Boiler water temperature (MsgID=25): 29.12
23:09:34.646084   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:34.819174   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:35.056233   T80640000   Read-Data    Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000000
23:09:35.214402   B40640003   Read-Ack     Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000011
         - Manual change priority: enable overrule (1)
         - Program change priority: enable overrule (1)
23:09:35.246128   A40640000   Read-Ack     Remote override function (MsgID=100): 00000000
         - Manual change priority: disable overrule (0)
         - Program change priority: disable overrule (0)
23:09:35.449316   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:35.609964   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:35.843952   T00000300   Read-Data    Status (MsgID=0): 00000011 00000000
         - CH enable: enabled (1)
         - DHW enable: enabled (1)
         - Cooling enable: disabled (0)
         - OTC active: not active (0)
         - CH2 enable: disabled (0)
         - Summer/winter mode: winter (0)
         - DHW blocking: unblocked (0)
23:09:36.017449   BC000030A   Read-Ack     Status (MsgID=0): 00000011 00001010
         - Fault indication: no fault (0)
         - CH mode: active (1)
         - DHW mode: not active (0)
         - Flame status: flame on (1)
         - Cooling status: not active (0)
         - CH2 mode: not active (0)
         - Diagnostic indication: no diagnostics (0)
         - Electricity production: not active (0)
23:09:36.255998   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:36.410873   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:36.648434   T00030000   Read-Data    Slave configuration (MsgID=3): 00000000 0
23:09:36.822019   B400341AD   Read-Ack     Slave configuration (MsgID=3): 01000001 173
         - DHW: present (1)
         - Control type: modulating (0)
         - Cooling: not supported (0)
         - DHW: instantaneous (0)
         - Master pump control: allowed (0)
         - CH2: not present (0)
         - Remote water filling: not available (1)
         - Heat/cool mode control: heat (0)
23:09:37.090741   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:37.217726   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:37.485301   T90011EE3   Write-Data   Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 30.89
23:09:37.627545   B50011EE3   Write-Ack    Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 30.89
23:09:37.878928   T00090000   Read-Data    Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:37.890961   SC: 23:09/7
23:09:37.925556   Thermostat disconnected
23:09:38.020470   BC0090000   Read-Ack     Remote override room setpoint (MsgID=9): 0.00
23:09:38.684831   Error 03
23:09:38.779017   R10010000   Write-Data   Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 0.00
23:09:38.920593   BD0010000   Write-Ack    Control setpoint (MsgID=1): 0.00
23:09:39.472770   Error 03
23:09:39.854445   R00060000   Read-Data    Remote parameter flags (MsgID=6): 00000000 00000000


I would like to know what the reason for the disconnect is, the smart power or Intergas not following the OT spec.
Included a couple logs and a diagnostics firmware log.

Thanks in advance!
Attachments
intergas-otgw-logs.zip
(11.55 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
jvwdev
Starting Member
Starting Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: November 2021

Re: Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby hvxl » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:23 pm

Thank you for providing logs along with your question. That makes understanding the problem so much easier.

The OTGW concludes that the thermostat is disconnected when it detects a voltage above 2.38V on the analog input from the thermostat. With R5=33k and R6=4k7, that value translates to a voltage above 19.11V on the actual Opentherm line to the thermostat. The maximum voltage within the Opentherm specification is 18V. So anything higher than that is not a valid Opentherm level.

Your diagnostic output shows that the OTGW found a level of 2.32V from your thermostat. That would translate to 18.64V on the Opentherm line. That's already outside the specification. It only has to rise a bit more to exceed the limit applied by the OTGW.

The above calculations assume perfect resistor values. However, the resistors have a tolerance of 10%. In the worst case scenario, R5 could be 10% too low, and R6 10% too high. In that case a line voltage above 16.07V would already result in a voltage above 2.38V on the analog input. A supply voltage below 5V for the PIC would only exacerbate the problem. In practice I have never found resistors that are anywhere near 10% off, though.

To determine if the resistor tolerances are the problem, you could disconnect the thermostat and then measure the voltage on the X1 connector (let's call that V1), PIC pin 17 (V2), and Vcc. Then the following calculation would give the actual line voltage that is considered "open":
    Vopen = Vcc * 122 / 256 * V1 / V2
For example, on one of my OTGWs, V1=24.36V, V2=3.042V, and Vcc=4.99V. That would produce a Vopen of 19.04V.

I'm not entirely sure anymore if a very low voltage on the thermostat interface would also cause the OTGW to conclude that the thermostat is disconnected. But considering your diagnostic output, as well as the timestamps in your log, that's unlikely to be the scenario here.

After figuring out which device to swear at, you probably want to resolve the problem. This can be done in the firmware by increasing the V_OPEN value. Each unit represents 0.16V on the line. So you can set it to 128 to raise the threshold to 20.05V.

If you're not comfortable changing the code, you can also modify the hardware. As indicated above, to tweak the voltage divider towards a safer outcome, you either have to increase R5, or decrease R6. Decreasing resistance is normally easier to do, because you can just put a high value resistor in parallel.
Schelte
hvxl
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1545
Joined: June 2010

Re: Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby jvwdev » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:59 pm

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Measured the required values with the thermostat disconnected:

V1 = 23.20
V2 = 2.904
Vcc = 5.044
Vopen => 19.20

I prefer to modify the software, so I increased V_OPEN to 128.
The problem still appeared, but maybe not as quick as before.

I kept increasing V_OPEN, even tested with 142 but that didn't help either.

With the included log with V_OPEN=142, I didn't modify the thermostat or remotely set any values.
After 3.5 minutes the thermostat disconnects.
Attachments
intergas-otgw-vopen142.zip
(15.63 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
jvwdev
Starting Member
Starting Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: November 2021

Re: Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby hvxl » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:07 pm

Assuming the 3.5 minute interval you are referring to is 20:20:32 to 20:24:08, there is a significant difference between your first log and this one: At the point where things stop working, the logs don't show the "Thermostat disconnected" message anymore. So it looks like the V_OPEN change had the expected effect.

But now there is an "OpenTherm Gateway 5.1" message. That is an indication that the OTGW has restarted. The interesting question is, why? You can obtain this information by executing the PR=Q command after this happens.
Schelte
hvxl
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1545
Joined: June 2010

Re: Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby jvwdev » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:29 pm

You are right, I didn't realize it was a reset.

The disconnect reason is B: Brown out (supply voltage dropped below 4.35V).
I swapped to a different USB charger, this one is 5.2 V
This works perfectly :)

I kept V_OPEN at 128, even though I could probably lower it.
Thank you for the help! I'll make a longer log with startup messages to upload for the equipment matrix.
jvwdev
Starting Member
Starting Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: November 2021

Re: Intergas (boiler/thermostat) smart power issues

Postby hvxl » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:58 pm

Great that the problem is solved.

It's fine to leave V_OPEN at 128. I should probably change it in the source code. The current value is a bit too close for comfort. It was set so tight because at some point the Nodo shop suggested that the OTGW could be powered by a 20V power supply. The power supply they delivered also had a 24V setting, which should really be used. On the newer versions of the OTGW, the 24V is generated from 5V. So there is no reason at all to account for a 20V power supply.
Schelte
hvxl
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1545
Joined: June 2010


Return to Opentherm Gateway Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest