Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

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Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:14 pm

Hi all,

I'm also struggling to set/override the room temperature setpoint of an Remeha iSense thermostat at the moment via the OpenThermGateway. Yes, I did read hvxl's note "...buy a thermostat that supports MsgID 9 (Remote override room setpoint) and possibly MsgID 100 (Remote override function)." And the iSense clearly doesn't support it but another Remeha (simpler) thermostat does support it.
Some users reported that they can override the temperature by issuing TT=0 first and after a minute or so issue TT=[required temp]. I also read that one should wait till a message with ID9 has been received, see http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?p=60022#p60022 Lastly there's the issue of the format of the temperature. Should it be TT=19.5 or TT=195, can fractions be entered or only whole degrees?
Lastly there's the issue nor the protocol nor any certified product is anything but open about requirements or capabilities. Perhaps the required functionality is present but a different message should be send. Why does the iSense sends msgid 109, 110, 111 & 112 for example? Grrr!
My iSense reports that it's version 19. Does anybody have a different version? I did read in a recent downloaded pdf containing the iSense user manual that from version v20 new features are available. Perhaps this is solved as well in a newer version.

So can anybody set/override the room temperature setpoint of an iSense via an OpenTherm gateway either via direct serial command or via otmonitor? If so any reproducible steps would be most welcome. And please specify which version of the iSense you've got.

I wanted to create a new topic ("Setting / overriding temperature setpoint in iSense") because this problem is reported in several other topics. If a moderator thinks this is appropriate please move this post to a new topic. This has nothing todo with homeseer for example.

Kind regards
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby Bwired » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:58 pm

Not sure which Isense version I have, how can i see it?

Below workaround works for me now, but im not happy with it

If ID9 Remote override <> 0 then first send a TT=0
if ID9 is received this you can send the new setpoint
Downside is that the thermostat goes for few seconds back to its original program :(
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:43 pm

@bwired
You can determine the iSense version in two locations.
First on the iSense itself
Enter menu->informatie. Press right button "meer informatie". Scroll to the last item, in my version 15 items and version 19.

Second method via the OTG:
Look for the messages below. The master is the iSense.
09:33:54.902553 T107C0300 Write-Data OpenTherm version Master: 3.00
09:33:54.982840 B707C0300 Unk-DataId OpenTherm version Master: 3.00
09:33:55.893544 T007D0000 Read-Data OpenTherm version Slave: 0.00
09:33:55.986130 BC07D0300 Read-Ack OpenTherm version Slave: 3.00
09:33:56.895414 T107E1E13 Write-Data Master product version: 30 19
09:33:56.985575 B707E1E13 Unk-DataId Master product version: 30 19
09:33:57.896563 T807F0000 Read-Data Slave product version: 0 0
09:33:57.987220 BC07F0C0D Read-Ack Slave product version: 12 13

There's a label on the back of the iSense module containing some identification as well. But I don't know what's printed on it. Since the iSense is rather difficult to remove I'd rather leave it mounted.
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:34 pm

I've got a Remeha Quinta Pro with a wired iSense (version 19). The OpenThermGateway is located next to the boiler. I really would like to override the room temperature setpoint of the iSense via the OTG until the next program change, but I can't.

If I issue a direct TT=20 or TR=20 or TT=20.1 or TR=20.1, I do get an OK but nothing further. I don't see any "new" message being send in the log. I've also tried TT=0 wait 60 or 65 secs and then issue TT=20 but nothing either.

Would anybody with an iSense and OTG who can override the setpoint please help me? For example by answering some of these questions.

Which iSense version do you have?
Which heating strategy have you configured on the iSense (ruimte, OTC etc) ?
Do you ever see MessageID 9 of 100? If see can you post a log snippet and describe why and when you see these messages?
If you managed to set the temperature setpoint is there something visible on the iSense (indicating an override) ?
If you managed to set the temperature setpoint via the OTG? Could you please explain how? Which command? Timing? Exact syntax? And could you post some log to illustrate what's going on when setting the temperature setpoint?

Much appreciated and hopefully this helps other as well.
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby steelrv » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:56 pm

saw this somewhere, please try it..

--
Hi Schelte,

I found out that i had to enable 'remote access' on the isense. It was disabled by default. Now it's working!

Thanks!
Jan-Jacob
--
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby hvxl » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:03 pm

You did remember to enable the functionality in the iSense settings, right? See domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=23& ... 766#p59766
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:35 pm

@steelrv,
Big thank you Indeed one had to enable that.

@hvxl,
Big thank you for being so patient. Perhaps you could include this info on your site as well to prevent this quest in the future.

So everybody here's the setting to allow the OpenThermGateway override the room temperature setpoint on an iSense
on the iSense open the menu goto "instellingen" -> "installateur" -> "Externe toegang" set this to "Toestaan"

My manual, "remeha 118036-030211_iSense_installatie_en_servicehandleiding.pdf", doesn't even cover this setting. Although it's mentioned in the back in a menu reference card. It should be enabled by default.

Don't confuse this with the setting called "DIGI ingang"
http://www.domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.p ... =135#p5895

The OpenTherm override uses the same visual indication as the manual (by turning the knob on the iSense) override.
It works if you see a hand symbol in the topright corner.

You can cancel the override manually on the iSense by selecting "vervolg programma" or by issuing TT=0 on the OTG.

Here's a log snippet showing the override.
First the iSense is running it's regular program
Next I set the temperature to 20.1 degrees
After 20 secs the iSense picks it up "Remote override room setpoint: 20.10"
Next some bad News the "Control setpoint" ramps up to the maximum water temperature, 90 degrees Celcius and the boiler also ramps up. In this case from minimal power output to 55%!!!
Next some more unexpected log entries: 20:08:58.752798 T00090000 Read-Data Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
Huh I didn't ask for that. No I didn't touch the iSense nor did I issue a TT=0
After the remote override was cancelled the boiler ramps down to it's previous control setpoint and power level.
I did issue a TT=0 but that didn't change a thing.

I'll rerun the tests again, but first I'll need to reset my OTG again. That's still an issue that needs some attention.
Code: Select all
20:05:12.214179 B50013519 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.10
20:05:17.104052 T10013533 Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.20
20:05:17.213891 BD0013533 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.20
20:05:20.119051 T901012C2 Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.76
20:05:20.208114 B501012C2 Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.76
20:05:22.109581 T10013533 Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.20
20:05:22.211085 BD0013533 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.20
20:05:27.118190 T9001354C Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.30
20:05:27.208628 B5001354C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.30
20:05:30.122559 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:05:30.413086 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:05:32.159145 T9001354C Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.30
20:05:32.313635 B5001354C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.30
20:05:37.162940 T10013566 Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.40
20:05:37.313116 BD0013566 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.40
20:05:40.157280 T80640000 Read-Data  Remote override function: 00000000
20:05:40.297932 B70640000 Unk-DataId Remote override function: 00000000
20:05:40.310189 A40640000 Read-Ack   Remote override function: 00000000
20:05:42.174736 T10013566 Write-Data Control setpoint: 53.40
20:05:42.299918 BD0013566 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 53.40
20:05:47.187065 T90013619 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.10
20:05:47.297054 B50013619 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.10
20:05:50.400223 Command: TT=20.1
20:05:50.425565 OK
20:05:52.202942 T90013619 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.10
20:05:52.300976 B50013619 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.10
20:05:57.211884 T90013619 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.10
20:05:57.311656 B50013619 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.10
20:06:00.225752 T101012CF Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.81
20:06:00.316316 BD01012CF Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.81
20:06:02.243486 T90013619 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.10
20:06:02.389098 B50013619 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.10
20:06:07.246146 T10013633 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.20
20:06:07.396227 BD0013633 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.20
20:06:10.250529 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:06:10.500597 A4009141A Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 20.10
20:06:11.251644 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:06:11.502237 A4009141A Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 20.10
20:06:12.263128 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:06:12.503550 A4009141A Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 20.10
20:06:14.266094 T10013633 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.20
20:06:14.397420 BD0013633 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.20
20:06:19.293141 T90014366 Write-Data Control setpoint: 67.40
20:06:19.393228 B50014366 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 67.40
20:06:25.291816 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:25.391960 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:33.313408 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:33.403488 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:38.330693 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:38.480746 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:43.337820 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:43.488019 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:46.352326 T901013EE Write-Data Room setpoint: 19.93
20:06:46.492484 B501013EE Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 19.93
20:06:48.355330 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:48.485008 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:53.362338 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:53.482486 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:56.376494 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:06:56.697080 A4009141A Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 20.10
20:06:58.381831 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:06:58.479399 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:03.386618 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:03.486660 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:08.403826 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:08.503898 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:13.421355 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:13.591694 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:18.438297 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:18.578393 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:23.455511 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:23.576146 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:26.459886 T901013EE Write-Data Room setpoint: 19.93
20:07:26.570218 B501013EE Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 19.93
20:07:28.473167 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:28.572821 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:33.479896 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:33.569918 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:36.484178 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:07:36.774825 A4009141A Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 20.10
20:07:38.497154 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:38.589419 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:43.514872 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:43.674822 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:48.531608 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:48.671735 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:53.548698 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:53.678913 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:58.566092 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:07:58.666334 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:03.583206 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:03.673452 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:06.587554 T901013EE Write-Data Room setpoint: 19.93
20:08:06.677807 B501013EE Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 19.93
20:08:08.590413 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:08.690518 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:13.607512 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:13.757926 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:16.611903 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:16.972642 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:17.623310 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:17.974177 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:18.614714 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:18.976171 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:20.617650 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:20.767858 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:25.634906 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:25.775345 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:30.652057 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:30.762761 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:35.659711 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:35.770336 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:40.676721 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:40.767650 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:45.693881 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:45.784074 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:48.708145 T901012D9 Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.85
20:08:48.848457 B501012D9 Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.85
20:08:50.710921 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:50.861367 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:55.738474 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:55.849021 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:08:58.752798 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:08:59.063708 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:09:00.755857 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:00.856083 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:05.772703 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:05.872873 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:10.789929 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:10.950207 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:15.807059 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:15.957484 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:20.824390 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:20.954583 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:25.841769 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:25.951862 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:28.846106 T101012E1 Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.88
20:09:28.936465 BD01012E1 Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.88
20:09:30.848898 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:30.949209 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:35.866010 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:35.966230 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:38.880715 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:09:39.161182 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:09:40.893348 T10015A00 Write-Data Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:41.037199 BD0015A00 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 90.00
20:09:42.885998 T10013699 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:43.042530 BD0013699 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:47.914012 T10013699 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:48.033654 BD0013699 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:52.920685 T10013699 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:53.031105 BD0013699 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:57.928170 T10013699 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.60
20:09:58.028022 BD0013699 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.60
20:10:02.945101 T10013699 Write-Data Control setpoint: 54.60
20:10:03.045821 BD0013699 Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 54.60
20:10:03.825096 Command: TT=0
20:10:03.839436 OK
20:10:07.962321 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:08.122385 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:10.976636 T901012E6 Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.90
20:10:11.126865 B501012E6 Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.90
20:10:12.989601 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:13.129459 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:17.996598 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:18.137471 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:21.000988 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:10:21.331651 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:10:23.034405 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:23.124548 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:28.022146 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:28.122328 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:33.038783 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:33.138652 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:38.065646 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:38.238073 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:43.082863 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:43.222858 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:48.100016 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:48.220468 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:51.125068 T101012E8 Write-Data Room setpoint: 18.91
20:10:51.224594 BD01012E8 Write-Ack  Room setpoint: 18.91
20:10:53.116865 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:53.216970 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:58.134618 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:10:58.224435 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
20:11:01.154966 T00090000 Read-Data  Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:11:01.529320 AC0090000 Read-Ack   Remote override room setpoint: 0.00
20:11:03.161962 T1001374C Write-Data Control setpoint: 55.30
20:11:03.302217 BD001374C Write-Ack  Control setpoint: 55.30
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby Bwired » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:51 pm

bus147 wrote:@bwired
You can determine the iSense version in two locations.
First on the iSense itself
Enter menu->informatie. Press right button "meer informatie". Scroll to the last item, in my version 15 items and version 19.

Ok i have version 23 isense, so rather new!

@bus147
So this does not work for you?
If ID9 Remote override <> 0 then first send a TT=0
if ID9 is received then you can send the new setpoint
So the first override from the Otg always works for me
I will check my Control setpoint (update, see below, stays OK)

otg.jpg
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby hvxl » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 pm

Let me first describe how the regular setpoint override of the opentherm gateway works:
  • When the gateway receives a TT or TC command, it parses the command and if a valid temperature (between 0 and 30) is specified it responds with OK. So the OK means that the gateway understood and accepted the command. It doesn't provide any information related to the thermostat.
  • At this point the gateway starts flashing its override LED, if connected and configured as such (by default LED C).
  • Next, the gateway waits for the thermostat to ask for a "remote override room setpoint", to which it responds with the setpoint provided in the TT/TC command.
  • It then checks the room setpoint reports to verify the new setpoint was picked up by the thermostat.
  • If the room setpoint is within 0.125 degrees of the specified setpoint, the setpoint is considered to be accepted by the thermostat. The override LED goes from blinking to steady on.
  • Once the override setpoint is accepted, the gateway continues to monitor the room setpoint. When that changes, it is assumed that someone manually changed it on the thermostat, or (in case of a TT command) a scheduled change occurred. The gateway then stops sending the override setpoint and switches off the override LED.
  • If the room setpoint is not close to the requested override setpoint after three room setpoint reports have been received since the override setpoint was sent to the thermostat, the gateway gives up and cancels the override. The override LED is switched off again.
Looking at the log you provided, the initial setpoint is 18.76 followed by 18.81 (unusual values and strange that they are not constant). After you gave the TT=20.1 command, the gateway repeatedly provides this value to the thermostat whenever it asks. The room setpoint does change to 19.93, but that's just not close enough to what was requested. I already added the 0.125 margin because of the iSense (my honeywell always goes to the exact value requested), but in this case it has a deviation of 0.17 degrees. So, after three room setpoint messages with a value of 19.93, the gateway cancels the override and the iSense should fall back to its program. However, the next room setpoint messages show values of 18.85 (not back to 18.81 as expected), 18.88, 18.90, and 18.91.

My speculation based on these numbers is that when you started your experiment, the actual setpoint had recently been increased to 19. The iSense was busy with a controlled action to slowly reach this temperature. In order to achieve that, it appears to manipulate the setpoint value, keeping an internal offset from the actual requested setpoint. A short while before the override setpoint request from the gateway, the offset was going from -0.24 to -0.19. It makes sense that this figure keeps getting closer to 0 over time. By the time the remote override was requested, the offset may well have been -0.17. It seem the iSense mistakenly applies this offset to the override setpoint as well, resulting in 19.93 instead of the requested 20.10. This suspicion is further supported by the fact that after the override is canceled, the offset goes to -0.15, -0.12, -0.10, and -0.09. The -0.17 falls nicely in that sequence.

I therefore suspect that things would have worked fine, had you given the command 5 minutes later. The offset would have been less than 0.125 off by then. If you try again with a stable room setpoint, it will probably work.

This iSense thermostat (or at least your firmware version) really seems to be quite buggy.
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:26 pm

@hvxl,
was typing a response to bwired when your post came in. Let me study it a bit more before commenting.

@bwired,
The commands and procedure works as expected but still my iSense loses the override somehow, below for more explanation

First off all the jump to the maximum level I saw for the control setpoint. I raised the room temperature setpoint from 18 to 20 degrees Celsius. After doing so the control setpoint jumped up to 90 degrees Celcius. And the boiler heat output jumped accordingly up. I never saw this before. I double checked and it happened again. Next I removed the remote override and resumed the clock program. Than I raised the room temperature setpoint to 20 degrees by turning the knob on the iSense. The same thing happened, control setpoint to 90C and burner to 60%. My guess is that if you manually adjust the temperature the iSense tries to reach that request temperature as soon as possible. When running from the clock program it anticipates and slowly raises the temperature so that the requested room temperature has been reached on time. Which the iSense does rather succesfully. But it does this rather slowly, probably to be more efficient. Therefore I never saw large jumps in the setpoint and the high power output.

The other behavior I've noticed, the iSense losing or cancelling the remote override room temperature setpoint. To rephrase that, yes I can set the temperature via the OTG but after a while the hand symbol disappears from the iSense and the clock program resumes. Now before starting another goose chase full disclosure: my gateway is still not stable. The uptime increases but it still crashes after a while. But at the moment these two behaviors don't seem related. The override is happily cancelled while the gateway keeps running. At one point the override was still present but the OTG reset.
I need to run more tests to determine what's going on and hopefully when and why.

Thank you all for your interest and support.

PS.
I've noticed that the water temperatures in and out reported by the boiler are a bit off. In my case the actual heated water temperature is 8 deg lower than reported by the boiler. Return temperature is within 1 degree difference. Remeha told me that me that they allow a tolerance of 5 degrees Celcius, to me that seems rather high.
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:55 pm

@hvxl,

thank you for your analysis and explanation.

Regarding the resets. The gateway is experiencing fewer WDT reset's. The comparator voltage is currently set at VR=5, after I tried 4. Most off the time I could read the line "Thermostat disconnected" so changing VR did change something! Should I try VR=6? I don't have a digital scope or GPIB multimeter so I can't trigger on the reset and provide some insight in what's going on electrically just before the reset.
While I was typing this another reset and for the first time error 01 occured.

I hoped to produce a complete log for you including DHW and remote override everything without resets but that didn't work. I keep the log running.

Thank for explaining how the gateway handles the override. I'll try to recreate the situation and test your hypothesis. In the mean time it would be helpful if other owners of an iSense would report their firmware version and whether or not their iSense does the same as mine.

Thanks
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby Digit » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:43 pm

@bus147, I see the control setpoint going to 90 all the time. (Honeywell chronotherm modulation)
I think it's indeed so that the boiler reaches the flowtemp (the thermostat has in mind) sooner.
Can't think of any other reason.

After some time (within 30 sec) the controltemp drops again to a value between 40 and 45. (in CH mode, with DHW it stays much higher of course)
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:58 pm

@digit,

I hardly ever manually set the temperature and before I got the Recom interface working it was very difficult to visualize these low-level control mechanisms.
The swing to 90 degrees doesn't happen if I increase the temperature by only 0.5 degrees the control point isn't raised to 90 degrees but to something more reasonable.
I do like the strategy of the iSense of slowly raising the temperature, remember modern HR boilers are more efficient at lower temperatures. The extra efficiency is reached by condensing which only happens at lower (return) temperatures. If the iSense would go full blast to reach the required setpoint in the shortest time this extra efficiency is lost. If you manually set the temperature a more aggressive strategy is deployed. You don't want to wait an hour, now don't you? My Remeha boiler isn't that aggressive that the boiler will go full blast until the setpoint is reached. (The above explanation isn't really for you digit, but included for the sake off completeness)

I'm still very happy with the Remeha boiler, and their service. But that damn OPENtherm protocol is a ...

Now the current situation regarding the OpenThermGateway and the iSense:
-thanks to Scheltes excellent failsafe design no harm is done when the gateway resets. The whole heating system just keeps working, like the gateway isn't there.
-the WDT (watchdog) reset keeps occuring even after raising the comparator voltage. Perhaps Schelte will allow to raise the voltage even more...
-I can override, via the OTG, the temperature and cancel the override if certain conditions are met. See an earlier post by hvxl.
-The iSense won't cancel the remote override on the next program change.
-The iSense does cancel a manual (by turning the knob) override.

So if anybody has an iSense as well please post your experiences here as well and please report the firmware version number as well.
Oh and forum members if you know anybody how has an iSense and an OTG and very happy with it and therefore not very likely to visit to topic please ask them to answer the question above. It will help me alot and hopefully help others as well.

Thank you all.
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby Bwired » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:27 pm

bus147 wrote:-The iSense won't cancel the remote override on the next program change.

This morning i had this problem too :(
I made a Temporary override the night before via OTG and this morning at 7 the override (Hand) was still active.
The program should have kicked in at 6.

I think my Isense will leave soon!
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Re: Overriding temperature setpoint with OTG and iSense

Postby bus147 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:30 pm

@hvxl,

When setting TC MsgID 100 is set to 0000 0001 and setting TT sets MsgID 100 to 0000 0011. Both bits are now set which according to the documentation should give priority to a program change and/or manual change. So yes the OTG adheres to the specs. But could I ask you to make a special build for test purposes with clears bit 0 resulting 0000 0010 when sending TT? Perhaps the iSense behaves correctly with that message. If I've sorted this out I'll write a complaint to Remeha and ask them about the unknown MsgId's as well.

The reason I ask is that the iSense of bwired and myself do respond to TT and TC but it seems that TT behaves like TC on the iSense.

@bwired
Does your OTG never encounters a WDT reset with the iSense connected? Is it next to the boiler or next to the thermostat?

If this doesn't work either I think it's time to take my loss and see if a different thermostat works out-of-the box. I've talked to Honeywell this morning and that looks promising.
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