CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

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MindBender
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CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by MindBender »

The CatGenie, a fully automatic cat litterbox, has finally landed in Europe:
Image
http://www.catgenie.co.uk/
'Cat toilet' would actually be a more appropriate name for this appliance because it connects to your water pipes and sewer like a real toilet. I contains plastic granules to make your cat feel right at home, but at a press of a button (or on a timer) the waste is automatically scooped out of the box, ground and flushed away. After that the granules are washed, disinfected, dried and spread around equally again. Check out their movies too.

This unit was introduced in the US at the beginning of 2006. I pre-ordered one, but my order was cancelled because the company had second thoughts on shipping it to Europe. A European version was promised, but didn't come up until now. Obtaining a US version has proven to be very difficult: No supplier wanted to ship it in the first place, but even so shipping charges were quoted at $260. Besides that, a hugh 1500Watt transformer was required to make it run on 220Volt. Now all these problems are solved.

The CatGenie isn't the first cat toilet. It was preceded by the LitterFree cat toilet, also designed by the same engineers. Unfortunately the company went out of business. We have enjoyed the LitterFree unit for many years, yet during it's last year of service maintaining it was more effort than actually scooping a cat box. But hey, I prefer machine maintenance over poop-scooping any time.

Now I could put in a SAX15 to start cycles from my domotica system, keep statistics on cat visits and be notified of errors. But here's a guy who's planning on developing a new microcontroller:
http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter ... c2508.html
(Yes, that's a forum entirely dedicated to litter boxes, but who are we - domotica forum users - to judge?)

We have already ordered ours (affectionately referred to as 'The KatKrapper') after a couple of friendly and quickly answered emails.
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CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Barlow »

Our cats are using the litter robot: http://www.litter-robot.eu/shop_content ... 8b9ca8dc67

Big difference is that it does not flush the stuff through the toilet but disposes of it in a plastic bag down a drawer. It really works great and I have been thinking about hooking it up to Homeseer to estimate when it needs cleaning, but that has not happened yet...
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Snelvuur
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CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Snelvuur »

Pretty cool stuff, also that you can get rid of the stuff automaticly, and in theory never needs cleaning. Let us know how it works out... (findings etc)

// Erik (binkey.nl)
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CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Barlow</i>
<br />Our cats are using the litter robot: http://www.litter-robot.eu/shop_content ... ca8dc67<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I know it and I have considered that one too because of it's sturdy metal design: It will probably last forever, however it does resemble a cement mixer a little. I decided not to go for this unit because it fully relies on clumping litter to work properly; It's basically an automated clump-scooper and in my experience clumps aren't always formed properly or fall apart while being scooped.
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CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

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We have been using the unit for four days now and it's working great. We have new kittens who had to get used to everything around them, including a much bigger house without a litter box in every room. From the first day on the kittens have been using the CatGenie when they were in the same room with it; When they started meowing and looking for a suitable stop, we lured them into the garage (where the CatGenie is located) and they immediately knew what to do. After two days they were able to find the CatGenie on themselves.

We are not using automatic flushing yet. Unfortunately the possibilities are a bit limited: Manual flushing, once a day, twice a day, trice a day four times a day and flush-after-use. There is no way to set the flushing times: It starts when configured, so you if you're picky on flushing at particular times you have to set it at that time. But flush-after-use is a very nice option. As with all automatic flushes, flushing will not start if the CatGenie is occupied. If a flush it pending, either due timer of usage, flushing will be postponed to 10 minutes after the occupant has left. However, once started the flushing won't stop if kitty decides to jump in anyway, but that's not very likely because the CatGenie moves inside and still makes some noise. However, it's much more quiet than the LitterFree we had before (but that one sounded like a kitchen mixer and a blow dryer at the same time, so that's not a big achievement). Once our kittens are well adjusted to their new home, we will carefully start a flushing cycle in their presence.

A cleaning cycle takes about 40 minutes. During this time future occupants have to wait. With one cat that's not a problem, but our kittens are brothers how do nearly everything together. But once they are used to the cleaning cycle, I'm sure they will be able to wait.

After a flushing cycle the box is squeekie clean and the granules are completely dry. The LitterFree had slightly moist litter after a cycle rejected by off some cats. Sometimes the GenieHand misses a solid. And if it's not too solid the CatGenie will prepare you some poop soup, but that hasn't happened to us yet.

A constantly clean litter box is a great invention, but the unit has a flaw too; A flaw by design. The cleaning solution cartridges are expensive (24 British Pounds) and last 120 manual or timed cycles. On automatic cycles it will last 240 cycles, but it will flush (much) more ofter. For one cat 1..2 flushes per day are recommended, for two cats that is 2..3 cycles per day. In our case a cartridge will last two months, making the operational costs quite high. Clumping litter isn't free either, you'll break your back carrying it, you'll fill your garbage container loosing it and you'll still have to scoop. But at 12 Pounds a day it's not a bargain and much more expensive than using traditional litter (even if you clean your box twice a day).

The cartridges are not refillable. They contain a chip to prevent this and cartridge revenue are clearly a part of the CatGenie business model. For a 50 Euro full color printer where part of it's price is paid by buying cartridges I can understand this. For 300 Pound litterbox I do not. The CatGenie refuses to work on an empty (or absent) cartridge, holding your expensive CatGenie hostage until you pay your CatGenie tax again. I knew this when buying this box, but a chip resetter was available. WAS, because I received the new model with RF-ID chips for which no resetters are available yet. Resetter makers are intimidated with lawyers so I don't expect a new resetter for this RF-ID chip soon, unless I make one myself. But I'm also considering to remove the internal controller, record it's program and use my own controller instead.

All together it's a great box, although it's pretty expensive to run. More information on the CatGenie can be found on this forum where you can find my postings under the same nick:
http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by MindBender »

If anybody is interested; Soon replacement firmware will be available for this box. This means many new functions and rumors are that connection to Domotica systems will be one of them:
http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter ... c3341.html
And you won't need any expensive cartridges anymore, of course.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Jeffrey »

I'm in the market for an automatic litterbox.

The two candidates are the litter robot bubble and the catgenie. My conclusion this far is that the litter robot would be the sensible thing to buy (everyone is positive about it, and it works flawless), but the catgenie has better potential because it doesn't require emptying poobags and stuff (and has a higher domotica feeling, but that's not decisive for me). I want low maintenance so the catgenie is the one I want, but I'm sceptic because of the many reported bad experiences with it.

If I see the reviews on amazon the catgenie could be considered the worst product ever giving all the negative comments (and there are a lottttt of comments). When looking at the litterboxcentral site the experiences vary, but overal the unit is considered to require some mechanical/enginering experience and is therefor not for the faint of heart. That said, what I read/think most negative comments are related to the 60's model, and some to the current 120 model. That's where you (mindbender) come in to play for the following questions:

1. How much maintenance do you have on the device (frequency)?
2. What is the maintenance (simpel refill (light)/extra manual scooping (medium) or full disassembly and cleaning of the device also internally (intense))?
3. Has it worked flawlessly or did you have problems?
4. Did/do you have the "cat brownies" problem (a.k.a. a house smelling like the pits of hell because of heated poo which didn't get picked up by the scooper)?
5. Do you do "special" things to prevent problems (I read about people putting "oxi clean" or other stuff in the genie with an extra cycle to prevent problems and keep the machine internally clean)?
6. Did you apply any mods?

If you have other usefull feedback don't hasetate to share it. It will be appreceated.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

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Jeffrey wrote:1. How much maintenance do you have on the device (frequency)?
Not much. I do a deep-clean twice a year, but should increase that to every 3~4 months. For a long time I have scooped out the cat waste manually, depositing it into the hopper and start a washing cycle manually twice a day. This way my cartridges lasted longer and my cats still tolerated the box.
2. What is the maintenance (simpel refill (light)/extra manual scooping (medium) or full disassembly and cleaning of the device also internally (intense))?
Regular maintenance is a breeze: Replace the cartridge with a new one once it's empty, and top up the granules every month or 2~3. A deep-clean is recommended every 3~4 months. You need to take it apart and the parts are not dishwasher safe :wink:
3. Has it worked flawlessly or did you have problems?
I had a broken arm motor once, but service was excellent: I got shipped a replacement unit the same day, even before returning anything. And of coarse the cartridge chip: I consider that a flaw by design.
4. Did/do you have the "cat brownies" problem (a.k.a. a house smelling like the pits of hell because of heated poo which didn't get picked up by the scooper)?
Only once. But my box is in my garage, so it didn't affect the rest of the house.
5. Do you do "special" things to prevent problems (I read about people putting "oxi clean" or other stuff in the genie with an extra cycle to prevent problems and keep the machine internally clean)?
Yes; I used to scoop manually.
6. Did you apply any mods?
Yes; I have overwritten the standard firmware with custom written firmware, giving me a lot more control over the box, enabling new features and eliminating the need for cartridges. I will probably end up integrating it into my Domotica software.
If you have other usefull feedback don't hasetate to share it. It will be appreceated.
Yes; Check the the litterbox-central forum. I'm posting there under the same nick. The new firmware is called CatGenius and it's still in beta-phase (I'm a beta tester), but any News on in will be announced there.

Don't be too biased by the opinions on Amazon. Read the forum and make up your own mind. I bought a second box a couple of weeks ago and I wouldn't have done that if I wasn't very satisfied.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Jeffrey »

Thanks robert for the excellent feedback!
Not much. I do a deep-clean twice a year, but should increase that to every 3~4 months. For a long time I have scooped out the cat waste manually, depositing it into the hopper and start a washing cycle manually twice a day. This way my cartridges lasted longer and my cats still tolerated the box.
Every 3-4 months is longer than the little robot which needs cleaning each 1-3 months, so that's a plus for the genie.
Can you explain how the process goes? Is it designed to take apart easy for cleaning or do you have to register each skrew and tiny bit that comes out when taking it apart?
How hard is it (also time-wise)?
Yes; I have overwritten the standard firmware with custom written firmware, giving me a lot more control over the box, enabling new features and eliminating the need for cartridges. I will probably end up integrating it into my Domotica software.
I think that scooping only is enough after each visit and full cycle just 1-2 times a day for 2 cats. Is this estimation right, or do I miss something?
(I must admit that the custom firmware/domotica integration is realllllly cool! Can you flash your unit easy or did you need special hardware for it aka solder stuff to your unit voiding warrenty?)
5. Do you do "special" things to prevent problems (I read about people putting "oxi clean" or other stuff in the genie with an extra cycle to prevent problems and keep the machine internally clean)?Yes; I used to scoop manually.
Here's the link to the Oxy clean story --> http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter ... der#p17553 This stuff containes Sodium Percarbonate which apparently breaks down the hairs and stuff. They pour it in the bowl and hopper, let it soak for 2 hours and than start 2 cycles and there done. Now we only have to find a product in the Netherlands which contains Sodium Percarbonate like the Oxy clean stuff. I read also somewhere that the machine was totally clean when took apart after 9 months of usage and using that oxy clean/mr. fresh or other cleaning product was used on a regular basis.

Is there a potential that the whole thing will leak or is it made good enough that that will not happen?

I'm getting more and more exiting about it!
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

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Jeffrey wrote:Every 3-4 months is longer than the little robot which needs cleaning each 1-3 months, so that's a plus for the genie.
Can you explain how the process goes? Is it designed to take apart easy for cleaning or do you have to register each skrew and tiny bit that comes out when taking it apart?
How hard is it (also time-wise)?
At the risk of stating the obvious: The longer you wait, the more time it will take you to get it clean again. Last time I waited ~8 month and I can tell you: That was too long :lol:. There seems to be some kind of mineral build-up inside the box. Most of it is just lime from the tap water, but I think there are also some non digesting residues in the dry food. It took me 1.5 hour before I had removed everything. But normally you'll be done in 30 minutes.

Taking the unit apart is very easy: The processing unit is held in place by gravity alone. You can just take of off and put it aside. The top rim is clicked, but doesn't take much more effort. From there you can take out the bowl and the hopper to rinse them off. So yes, it is build with this in mind.

A new cleaning cartridge was recently introduced that should clean the CatGenie just as well, without the effort of doing it yourself. I've got one, but I didn't need to use it yet.
I think that scooping only is enough after each visit and full cycle just 1-2 times a day for 2 cats. Is this estimation right, or do I miss something?
I fully agree, but standard firmware doesn't support these features. Probably because it is not in the manufacturer's interest to reduce cleaning agent reduction. Besides that, a cleaning cycle takes ~40 minutes including drying, while scoop-only takes just ~6 minutes. So scoop-only with a combination of a full wash interval seems ideal. (BTW, there is no correlation between the duration of a cat's visit and the business it did because the sensor jitters as the cat moves around in the box)
(I must admit that the custom firmware/domotica integration is realllllly cool! Can you flash your unit easy or did you need special hardware for it aka solder stuff to your unit voiding warrenty?)
Overwriting the original firmware can be done without soldering, but because you need to open your unit and foreign software can potentially harm the hardware, doing so will void your warranty for sure. Of course the standard software is protected against reading, so we cannot back it up. But this also makes it impossible to verify if the original firmware is still installed. So if you're morally ok with it, you could erase the unit, set the configuration flags to their original value and claim warranty as if it were a dead unit.
Here's the link to the Oxy clean story --> http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter ... der#p17553 This stuff containes Sodium Percarbonate which apparently breaks down the hairs and stuff. They pour it in the bowl and hopper, let it soak for 2 hours and than start 2 cycles and there done. Now we only have to find a product in the Netherlands which contains Sodium Percarbonate like the Oxy clean stuff. I read also somewhere that the machine was totally clean when took apart after 9 months of usage and using that oxy clean/mr. fresh or other cleaning product was used on a regular basis.
Alternatively you could sink declogging agent, but I'm a bit more old fashion. I'd rather clean it mechanically than risking the integrity of all kinds of rubber seals and washers.
Is there a potential that the whole thing will leak or is it made good enough that that will not happen?
Theoretically; Yes. The water valve is controller by the water level detector. If water is detected, or something is wrong with the sensor, the valve will remain closed. But this mechanism can be overridden by software. The electronic design could have been better. But I'm sure the original firmware has implemented this properly.
There's always a risk in running alternative firmware, but I didn't have any floods other than the one that was my own fault: I had a leaking faucet, dripping water down the hose, ending up in the box. Over night the box dripped half full and CatGenius firmware doesn't have a mechanism in place yet to deal with spontaneous errors.
I'm getting more and more exiting about it!
Well, I can tell you: This is the most fun I had with a catbox, ever :wink:. (and it's not even made for that)

BTW: Other automated cat boxes, such as the LitterRobot, fully rely on clumping cat litter. For my cats clumping litter didn't clump enough to take out the waste without leaving behind too much residue. Your results may vary, of coarse.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Jeffrey »

Cool stuff!

I'm putting togetter the order trying to decide for unscented or scented cardridges. I read that the scented ones smell horribly. Do you have experience with the scented ones?

Here's my order so far:
1x CatGenie Tuxedo 12 Package £339.95
1x 6-Pack SaniSolution Smart Cartridge UNSCENTED £109.95
1x Washable Granules 6-Pack £99.95
Total £549.85

Did you buy it from the catgenie uk site or another place?
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by MindBender »

Jeffrey wrote:I'm putting togetter the order trying to decide for unscented or scented cardridges. I read that the scented ones smell horribly. Do you have experience with the scented ones?
I wouldn't describe it as horrible, but they do produce some scent alright, hence the name 'scented'. I suppose it masks out some of the residual scent of cleaning. I have used them, but I prefer the unscented version too.
Here's my order so far:
1x CatGenie Tuxedo 12 Package £339.95
1x 6-Pack SaniSolution Smart Cartridge UNSCENTED £109.95
1x Washable Granules 6-Pack £99.95
Total £549.85

Did you buy it from the catgenie uk site or another place?
I seems like you're ready to go! Yes, I have ordered it from the UK site as well. Let me know when you get it!
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Jeffrey »

Well the order is out:
1x CatGenie Tuxedo 12 Package
1x 6-Pack SaniSolution Smart Cartridge UNSCENTED
1x Washable Granules 6-Pack
2x CatGenie 120 Maintenance/super cleaning Cartridge

The great thing is that they first sent me a scented and 2 unscented cardridges so I can decide which ones I want for the 6 pack. That's great service!

[SCOOP] --> The CatGenie 120 Maintenance/super cleaning Cartridge is not yet on the uk site, however it will be soon at a price of £12,95.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by MindBender »

Jeffrey wrote:The great thing is that they first sent me a scented and 2 unscented cardridges so I can decide which ones I want for the 6 pack. That's great service!
Yes; Their service is great, I fully agree.
[SCOOP] --> The CatGenie 120 Maintenance/super cleaning Cartridge is not yet on the uk site, however it will be soon at a price of £12,95.
Nope, they do have the maintenance cartridge; You just have to ask for it because they didn't get around on putting it on their site yet. I asked and I got one with my second box, a couple of weeks ago.

The US site has been renewed recently, so the UK is probably waiting for their new site instead of adding it to the current one.

Don't forget to post your experiences with the box. I'm really curious if you like it as much as I do.
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Re: CatGenie, a fully automatic cat toilet

Post by Bwired »

More detailed experiences you can find here domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=17&amp ... amp;t=5024
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