First KNX setup to replace my Homeseer-Xanura combination

[Post-IT]

This topic will count as a follow up on this topic about "the switch" in which I am looking at replacing my Homeseer-Xanura setup.

Last week I have received some components to setup a proof of concept. I will try to put in some regular postings on my progress.

Some background:
- I have absolutely no (professional) knowledge of KNX, just my technical background to help me
- For the mid-voltage (230V) part of my setup I have decided to use EIB/KNX Powernet components to keep installation and cabling costs to a minimum

Components for the PoC are mainly Busch-Jaeger (ABB) as they are the only company with EIB Powernet components:
- Systemkoppler 6987/10 (€420): This component will serve as repeater between phases (3-phase system), gateway between Powernet/line (PL) and regular KNX twisted-pair (TP) and has a 24V powersupply on board to serve a small number of devices on the KNX bus.
- Bandsperre 6981 (€40): This component blocks/filters PL commands, this is to make sure there is no interference from outside. One for each phase.
- IP BAOS 770 (€185): This is my IP gateway to the KNX bus (TP), it also has capabilities to serve as an Object Server. I hope to use that function later to address IP devices as if they where a KNX device, although I haven't looked at this thoroughly yet.
- Dimmaktor 6932 U-101 (€135) and Schaltaktor 6931 U-101 (€110) wich act as a dimmer and regular switch. These differ from the Xanura modules in a way you cannot use "any" switch. It has a small 10-pin socket on which several "sensors" can be installed: 1-,2- or 4-way switches with LEDs, PIR sensors, displays, USB/RS-232 ports or other devices. So it also acts as a netcoupler to the PL. For example a 6932 dimmer with 4-way switch can be used to operate 4 KNX devices on the bus or the dimmer itself and 3 other devices on the bus.
- 1-way switch 6125 (€35): this is a single switch sensor to put on the dimmer or switch actors. It contains a duo color led (red/green) which can be programmed through the KNX bus.

I have put the components in an ABB jumperbox to make my PoC easy to handle and more safe:

PoC.jpg (233.53 KiB) Viewed 11431 times

To program the devices in the KNX bus I have ETS3f installed in a virtual, it uses the IP BAOS to connect to the KNX bus.

[Post-IT]

My first challenge was to program the devices and give them a physical address on the KNX bus.

I have choosen 1.1.x for the TP part (regular KNX twisted-pair bus devices) and 1.2.x for the Powerline/net devices.

The TP uses a similar system as the PL, it sends data/commands over a powered line. Because TP uses 24V and other frequencies it can transfer data 6 to 8 times faster than PL does on 230V. This represents my first problem, I try to program through the IP/TP gateway, so my local driver (ETS represents itself as a KNX device on the bus) sends data to the bus on TP speed as TP is the directly connected bus. It seems the driver does not slow down the datastream to meet the PL speed on the other side. This means the TP/PL gateway is presented with a problem if a continuous datastream is needed, it does not have a buffer of some sort. Single commands and status messages can be transferred between PL and TP without problem, so this is only the problem when programming devices.
I still have to investigate further and contact ABB, but it seems I will have to buy a RS-232 or USB unit and put it on one of the PL actors to interact with the PL bus directly. The driver will then see PL directly connected and programming will commence.

Lesson 1: Program TP devices through a TP based interface, program PL devices through a PL interface. Baudrates might differ between media types as is the case with this issue, so this could also be the case when using KNX RF or other non-TP media types.

I have ordered the buscoupling unit and hope to have it somewhere next week. Also someone from ABB will help me out with some generic settings for my PoC in ETS as one of the big problems is the documentation. Many KNX devices have hidden features, firmware/applications and manuals are hard to find. They expect you to follow training courses and not to use too many features, on the other hand these trainingcourses mostly don't fire off because nobody is showing up.

I have also ordered a 4-port i/o unit to interact with my door interface and other things (just €58)

[Rene]

You'll know what you are working for the coming years

[Post-IT]

After a few months of other things I've picked up my KNX project again.

A month or so ago I bought the ETS4 license through the knx-user-forum.de because they had a big discount (about 50%) due to the new version. So because I will be switching eventually I took the step to buy it. And because I was shopping on the KNX website anyway, I also ordered the KNX course documentation (basic, advanced and and the KNX handbook). Especially the Basic course documentation is an eyeopener for noobs like me. Next to the basics it will also help a lot in choosing a strategy (i.e. numbering plans) for the setup.

The new ETS4 software has a nice "Group monitor", this works the same as the PMIX35 Xanura software. The only thing is it is way nicer.

Screenshot 2011-05-09 at 23.36.43 .png (136.43 KiB) Viewed 11384 times

I've set up the PoC with 2 components, a dimmer (1.1.2 = Corridor main light) and a switch (1.1.3 = Corridor down light). I will be using a third object to connect to the bus with the PC (1.1.4 in today's screenshots).
Each object has several components. The type and number of components depends on the products you use, see my first post to see what components I used for this setup.
Dimmer:
0: Ausgang (switch on/off using a 1-bit packet)
1: Dimmer (object for an exact percentage using a 4-bit packet)
2: Dimmer (object for dimming command start/stop/up/down/% using a 1-Byte packet)
6: Wippe kurz (object for the attached button/sensor giving a short push for on/off)
7: Wippe lang (object for the attached sensor for long push used for dimming)

The switch components are fairly the same but just without the dimmer parts.

Each of these components should be placed in to a group object. Each group object is an action. So for the PoC I've made these group objects:
1/0/0 Corridor main light switching (used for on/off)
1/0/1 Corridor main light dim-exact (used to directly set a specific dim value)
1/0/2 Corridor main light dimming (used to manual dimming)
1/0/3 Corridor down light switching (used for on/off)

To give you an idea on how that looks in ETS4:

Screenshot 2011-05-09 at 23.51.35 .png (64.07 KiB) Viewed 11384 times

As you can see in the screenshots we are now able to switch the lights and send some fixed values from the PC.

Unfortunately I've run in to a problem with the dimming part (group 1/0/2). Giving a long push should normally change the dimmingvalue (higher/lower), when you release the button is stops this action and stays at the level of that moment. However in my case it switches on (if the light was off) and will not increase the value more then 5%. This behaviour is also a problem when I try to send the needed commands using ETS.

So after trying several things I've contacted the manufacturer... let's wait and see.

So far my impression is that the system is way faster then Xanura, both when sending signals from the PC to the bus as well as when you just push the button. Xanura can be slow in both cases.

[Post-IT]

I've found the problem. The dimmer was actually working but it took 8 minutes for a complete dimming cycle. This results in thinking it doesn't dim.

After some adjusting of the dimmer parameters it now works. However these Powernet dimmers have a strange way of doing this calculation. New dimmers just have a single parameter... how many mSec for a complete cycle.

Screenshot 2011-05-12 at 15.21.06 .png (32.72 KiB) Viewed 11353 times

Now I'll try to get the GiraServer working with these few switches.

[Post-IT]

I now have a fully working KNX-PL setup and some basic interaction with Gira Homeserver and my new Satel Integra alarmsystem.

After talking to several KNX specialists I have adopted a different groupnumbering scheme:

a/b/c

a= main group defining function, i.e. Lights/HVAC/Blinds
b= middle group defining action, i.e. on/off/dim/status/exact
c= sub group defining actor or location, i.e. 1st-kit-main, 2nd-mbed-closet (1st floor kitchen main light, 2nd floor master bedroom closet lights)

This will give better logging and will help see what happens when looking at the logs. This will also minimize programming mistakes as it will be clear when I miss a group.

1/x/3 will give me all actions for switch 3:
1/0/3 will show me on/off commands
1/1/3 will show me all dimming commands
1/2/3 will show me all status commands
1/3/3 will show me all exact data commands (i.e. 70% for a dimming cmd)

In my old setup this could have been:
1/0/3 kitchen on/off
1/0/4 kitchen dim
1/0/5 kitchen status
1/0/6 kitchen exact %
1/0/7 livingroom on/off
1/0/8 livingroom status
etc...
So if I then look at the logs I would have to search back to see what every groupaddress has for a function. So using the middle group to define the function is much clearer.

If people like, I can go deeper in to:
- how I setup a KNX-PIR to activate the hallway lights
- how I setup status groups to ensure led feedback is in sync when using external commands (such as from Gira HS or Satel alarm)
- how I programmed outputs and inputs on the Satel Integra
- how I did some programming in Gira HS (Proliphix thermostat, RFXCOM Harrison curtains, lights, dimmers, external URL commands to fetch information such as outside temp.)

But to prevent putting my precious time in to extensive topics nobody needs or reads, I'll await the reactions.

[jeroenc]

I'm reading, I just have no KNX installation
However, keep up the good work, it's interesting!

[Post-IT]

Thanks Jeroen,

any specific parts you would like some details on?

[Johnson]

Hi Post-IT

i have to combine my x10 installation with knx parts.
I am really interested on the Gira HS <-> RFXCOM part of your installation.
actually i am using tons of security sensors, temp sensors, a weather station and two rfxmeter with rfxlan in homeseer.
can you explain some details of your programming in Gira HS?