Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby Toonz » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:14 pm

timkoers wrote:I've got the use case and I am willing to code it. :)
The only problem, I only have a Toon 1 and no STRV's

Uhmm, what is your use case if you don't have a Toon2 or any STRV ? :D
Without a Toon2 you cannot start coding this....
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby timkoers » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:17 pm

Toonz wrote:
timkoers wrote:I've got the use case and I am willing to code it. :)
The only problem, I only have a Toon 1 and no STRV's

Uhmm, what is your use case if you don't have a Toon2 or any STRV ? :D
Without a Toon2 you cannot start coding this....


We are thinking about switching to a setup like this. If it much efficienter than heating the entire house and most importantly. When the living room (where the Toon is) is already up to temperature, the rest of the house is not heated.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby TheHogNL » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:38 pm

I would then recommend using the toon for the living room and install a plugwise adam between the toon (keteladapter) and the boiler. Then use other plugwise equipment to control the radiators in the rest of the home. Adam will then start the boiler if there is heat request from one of the sources (including the toon). You will only need to close the living room somehow (with a 2-way valve or something) to not heat the living room if only the rest of the house needs heating.

The STRV support for the Toon2 is just not production ready and there is no rooted Toon user using it.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby knug2 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:37 pm

Maybe a bit 'off-topic', but i'm also busy building 'zone' regulated heating.

I have (smart) Zigbee TRV's connected to my HomeAssistant trough Zigbee2Mqtt. My Toon 1 is also connected with HA.
Is there a possibility to manually override/set the Toon's relative modulation level/boiler control setpoint ( actually just like OTGW does )? If not possibile, I will install an OTGW.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby timkoers » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:56 pm

TheHogNL wrote:I would then recommend using the toon for the living room and install a plugwise adam between the toon (keteladapter) and the boiler. Then use other plugwise equipment to control the radiators in the rest of the home. Adam will then start the boiler if there is heat request from one of the sources (including the toon). You will only need to close the living room somehow (with a 2-way valve or something) to not heat the living room if only the rest of the house needs heating.



Hmm that sounds a bit weird, I would opt for a full SRTV setup controlled through the Toon.

TheHogNL wrote:The STRV support for the Toon2 is just not production ready and there is no rooted Toon user using it.


I'm still not sure if I am going to actually install the STRV's and the Toon2, but could you introduce me a little to the source code that needs modifications. You can PM me if that's easier.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby TheHogNL » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:25 pm

timkoers wrote:I'm still not sure if I am going to actually install the STRV's and the Toon2, but could you introduce me a little to the source code that needs modifications. You can PM me if that's easier.


You need to add code. Nothing to modify.
You need BXT listeners to listen for STRV's who want heating. Then you need BXT commands to set a high set temp (on the toon thermostat) so that the boiler starts. Also you need to add some code to edit the weekly program per STRV because a subscription Toon uses the app for that and we don't know in which format that should be. It is not that simple. It is easier to write some python code on a rasperry pi towards the z-wave enabled STRV's :)
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby timkoers » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:51 am

TheHogNL wrote:It is easier to write some python code on a rasperry pi towards the z-wave enabled STRV's :)


True! But I'd like to do something for the community :)

TheHogNL wrote:You need to add code. Nothing to modify.
You need BXT listeners to listen for STRV's who want heating. Then you need BXT commands to set a high set temp (on the toon thermostat) so that the boiler starts


This sounds like very advanced terminology. Do you have anything that I can read to get a better understandig of these kind of details?
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby TheHogNL » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:44 am

timkoers wrote:
TheHogNL wrote:It is easier to write some python code on a rasperry pi towards the z-wave enabled STRV's :)


True! But I'd like to do something for the community :)

TheHogNL wrote:You need to add code. Nothing to modify.
You need BXT listeners to listen for STRV's who want heating. Then you need BXT commands to set a high set temp (on the toon thermostat) so that the boiler starts


This sounds like very advanced terminology. Do you have anything that I can read to get a better understandig of these kind of details?


It isn't simpler :)

I checked again. The Toon STRV implementation adds no thermostat intellegence. It only displays the current state of each STRV (each zone) including if it is heating or not and the set/current temp. Plus it can set the settemp per STRV manually or per schedule. But the heuristics of when to start heating etc. is all up to the STRVs.
So to make it a complete solution for a system without constant waterflow (like district heating or 'weersafhankelijk') you need to monitor the heating requests of each STRV and depending on that enable or disable the boiler. And another piece of code replacing the 'weekly schedule' code of the Toon because we can not set that with the Eneco app.

I myself think this is too much to ask for and much easier to be done on a domoticz or homeassistant system where you can build scripts like this yourself.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby timkoers » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:38 am

TheHogNL wrote:
timkoers wrote:
TheHogNL wrote:It is easier to write some python code on a rasperry pi towards the z-wave enabled STRV's :)


True! But I'd like to do something for the community :)

TheHogNL wrote:You need to add code. Nothing to modify.
You need BXT listeners to listen for STRV's who want heating. Then you need BXT commands to set a high set temp (on the toon thermostat) so that the boiler starts


This sounds like very advanced terminology. Do you have anything that I can read to get a better understandig of these kind of details?


It isn't simpler :)

I checked again. The Toon STRV implementation adds no thermostat intellegence. It only displays the current state of each STRV (each zone) including if it is heating or not and the set/current temp. Plus it can set the settemp per STRV manually or per schedule. But the heuristics of when to start heating etc. is all up to the STRVs.
So to make it a complete solution for a system without constant waterflow (like district heating or 'weersafhankelijk') you need to monitor the heating requests of each STRV and depending on that enable or disable the boiler. And another piece of code replacing the 'weekly schedule' code of the Toon because we can not set that with the Eneco app.

I myself think this is too much to ask for and much easier to be done on a domoticz or homeassistant system where you can build scripts like this yourself.


I've got in touch with the development team of the Toon and they are planning to have a proof of concept of STRV's with a boiler, ready in Q1 and to deliver it in Q2. Presumably next year.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby TheHogNL » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:02 pm

timkoers wrote:
I've got in touch with the development team of the Toon and they are planning to have a proof of concept of STRV's with a boiler, ready in Q1 and to deliver it in Q2. Presumably next year.

Wow nice info! How did you get in touch with them? For us it is very hard to get any contact with quby.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby timkoers » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:25 pm

TheHogNL wrote:
timkoers wrote:
I've got in touch with the development team of the Toon and they are planning to have a proof of concept of STRV's with a boiler, ready in Q1 and to deliver it in Q2. Presumably next year.

Wow nice info! How did you get in touch with them? For us it is very hard to get any contact with quby.


You've got mail!
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby RoadXY » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:09 am

TheHogNL wrote:I would then recommend using the toon for the living room and install a plugwise adam between the toon (keteladapter) and the boiler. Then use other plugwise equipment to control the radiators in the rest of the home. Adam will then start the boiler if there is heat request from one of the sources (including the toon). You will only need to close the living room somehow (with a 2-way valve or something) to not heat the living room if only the rest of the house needs heating.

The STRV support for the Toon2 is just not production ready and there is no rooted Toon user using it.

Plugwise Adam works really well with Toon.
Only issue is that when you change the prefered room temp in the Plugwise app, this isn't updated in the display on Toon.
The other way around, however, is. When the prefered temp on Toon is changed, this is visible in the Plugwise app.

One downside of Plugwise is the lack of integration with Google Assistant.
The upside is they have an open API (undocumented but not protected), so many platforms (Domoticz, HAS, Homey etc) already have good integration.

I didn't want to 'program' the logic to control the room thermostats because there are many scenarios to be taken into account.
I just want it to work and have no worries about it.
Plus if my domotica system fails (or Toon as a matter of fact) Plugwise will continue to run the boiler.
And if you use the Plugwise Lisa's (room thermostat) which can be placed on a way better place to read the current room temp then the temp sensor inside the STRV's!

All Plugwise devices can be connected to either mains power OR batteries.
When connected to main power they even start acting as a Zigbee repeator to enhance the Plugwise Zigbee network.
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby Arcidodo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:43 pm

I want to buy some zigbee radiator valves, but is there an list of supported valves for the toon? And is there any News about this feature?
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Re: Toon 2 controling smart radiator valves

Postby TheHogNL » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:17 pm

Arcidodo wrote:I want to buy some zigbee radiator valves, but is there an list of supported valves for the toon? And is there any News about this feature?


Toon supports zwave STRV's and not zigbee. The Toon is made for these STRV's : https://www.robbshop.nl/radiator-thermostaat-popp

No one for I know of is using the feature yet so I can't tell you how good it is working. Also you need the official app to setup per zone (per STRV) temperature scheduling. We haven't decoded that yet because we haven't seen it working anywhere.

So situation is still the same. We are waiting for official support from quby and/or waiting for some just to try.
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