Has anyone tried to work with led lamps? It seems if i check, i can see a lot of LED lamps with normal fittings For instance http://www.uniled.nl/?p=productsList&iC ... e=Spot-E27 has some which looks ok.
* Very low watts usage
* Long life
* bright lights ?
Seems to me then, that i should replace all in my house with led lamps since thats cheaper over the year.
// Erik (binkey.nl)
LED Lamps
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MindBender
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Nope. Though the colour of the LED lamps I last saw didn't appeal to me very much. This one is funny though: http://samenkopen.net/action/376263
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Hi Eric,
A few words of warning before you invest a lot of money in led lights:
- Check the color temperature of the leds before you buy them. Normal light bulbs have a color temperature of around 2700 Kelvin. Most leds have a much higher color temperature (up to 6000 K) which translates to (much) "cooler" light. Even "warm white" leds tend to be cooler (3000 - 3500 K) than normal bulbs. You can find warmer leds, but they usually are less bright and more expensive.
- Check the beam angle of the leds. Normal bulbs send out light in all directions. Led light is typically directed, depending on the leds and the lenses used.
- Check the brightness of the leds. Don't trust any claims that a certain E27 or E14 led spot is equal to a 40/60/75/whatever Watt light bulb if you didn't see it yourself. If you're interested in using leds to save energy, check the lumen per Watt ratio. The more lumen per Watt, the more efficient (and expensive) the leds will be. Note that a 60 Watt light bulb is approx. 800 lumen. To be able to get that much light using some of the most efficient powerleds, you need at least 8 Watt of led lights (at 100 lumen/Watt). And most leds are (a lot) less efficient. In my experience, powerleds (1 Watt per led or more) seem to be the way to go and even these might turn out to be not bright enough for your application. Also note that CFLs ("spaarlampen") are still more energy efficient than most leds...
Led lights are a promising technology but we're not there yet. But it's certainly worth while experimenting with it!
Lennart
A few words of warning before you invest a lot of money in led lights:
- Check the color temperature of the leds before you buy them. Normal light bulbs have a color temperature of around 2700 Kelvin. Most leds have a much higher color temperature (up to 6000 K) which translates to (much) "cooler" light. Even "warm white" leds tend to be cooler (3000 - 3500 K) than normal bulbs. You can find warmer leds, but they usually are less bright and more expensive.
- Check the beam angle of the leds. Normal bulbs send out light in all directions. Led light is typically directed, depending on the leds and the lenses used.
- Check the brightness of the leds. Don't trust any claims that a certain E27 or E14 led spot is equal to a 40/60/75/whatever Watt light bulb if you didn't see it yourself. If you're interested in using leds to save energy, check the lumen per Watt ratio. The more lumen per Watt, the more efficient (and expensive) the leds will be. Note that a 60 Watt light bulb is approx. 800 lumen. To be able to get that much light using some of the most efficient powerleds, you need at least 8 Watt of led lights (at 100 lumen/Watt). And most leds are (a lot) less efficient. In my experience, powerleds (1 Watt per led or more) seem to be the way to go and even these might turn out to be not bright enough for your application. Also note that CFLs ("spaarlampen") are still more energy efficient than most leds...
Led lights are a promising technology but we're not there yet. But it's certainly worth while experimenting with it!
Lennart
LED Lamps
A few links to sites containing led light experiences:
http://www.olino.org/articles/2007/08/1 ... mpmetingen
http://www.zonnepanelen.wouterlood.com/ ... ing_nl.htm
Both sites are mainly in Dutch and mainly deal with renewable energy (which, by the way, is another interesting topic).
http://www.olino.org/articles/2007/08/1 ... mpmetingen
http://www.zonnepanelen.wouterlood.com/ ... ing_nl.htm
Both sites are mainly in Dutch and mainly deal with renewable energy (which, by the way, is another interesting topic).
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MindBender
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For your information, white LEDs are most commonly based on either one of these two technologies:
The first technology is based upon a single LED, usually an Ultra Violet type, that's using a mixture of phorphorous substances as light transformers to produces a smooth white light colour. This technology is relatively cheap, but it has a major drawback: The phosphorous substances wear out, and not all substances wear out equally. During the lifespan of such an LED the colour will change from warm (yellow-ish) when it's new to cold (blue-ish) after a couple of 1000 hours.
The second technologie is based upon a combination of red, green an blue LEDs in a single housing. Theses LEDs are generelly more espensive. They don't produce a smooth white light, because they usually use only 3 colours to mix to white, where the previous type can use many more substances at the same price. Another disadvantage is the rainbow effect at the edges of shadows they cast.
The first technology is based upon a single LED, usually an Ultra Violet type, that's using a mixture of phorphorous substances as light transformers to produces a smooth white light colour. This technology is relatively cheap, but it has a major drawback: The phosphorous substances wear out, and not all substances wear out equally. During the lifespan of such an LED the colour will change from warm (yellow-ish) when it's new to cold (blue-ish) after a couple of 1000 hours.
The second technologie is based upon a combination of red, green an blue LEDs in a single housing. Theses LEDs are generelly more espensive. They don't produce a smooth white light, because they usually use only 3 colours to mix to white, where the previous type can use many more substances at the same price. Another disadvantage is the rainbow effect at the edges of shadows they cast.
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Snelvuur
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Well if i need to do my house anyway with new light bulbs, the question is more.. would i want to go LEDS all the way.. because if you have to start from scratch anyway..
// Erik (binkey.nl)
// Erik (binkey.nl)
LED Lamps
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by snelvuur</i>
<br />Well if i need to do my house anyway with new light bulbs, the question is more.. would i want to go LEDS all the way.. because if you have to start from scratch anyway..
// Erik (binkey.nl)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's exactly my situation... and I feel kind of "lost"...
Guess I won't really make up my mind until my wife really sets a deadline to do it! ehehe
<br />Well if i need to do my house anyway with new light bulbs, the question is more.. would i want to go LEDS all the way.. because if you have to start from scratch anyway..
// Erik (binkey.nl)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's exactly my situation... and I feel kind of "lost"...
Guess I won't really make up my mind until my wife really sets a deadline to do it! ehehe
LED Lamps
Today, I visited the Elektrotechniekbeurs in Utrecht. It was quite interesting to see that led lighting is really gaining momentum. Important players such as Philips and Osram had interesting booths with many led products, some of them still prototypes. Some smaller companies, such as Klemko, Lagotronics and Triolight were also quite visible with innovative led products.
Some of the things I liked most:
- Philips RGB wallwasher (nice design, though still a prototype)
- Osram dragon-eye IP65 warm white mini led-spot
- Klemko Luxi warm white mini led-spot and dimmable led driver (both supplied by Lumotech, which we discussed before
Another interesting innovation was the linear dimmerable CFL by Megaman. It's the first "spaarlamp" that I know of that's dimmerable by a regular mains dimmer (note that Megaman used to have dimmerable CFLs (DorS series), but these had only 4 dim levels that could be operated by switching the light on and off repetitively). I think I'll buy one of these new CFLs to try it with a Xanura dim module to see how stable it is.
One final observation that surprised me somewhat: Moeller had a Home Control Box at their booth operating Moeller domotica modules (they called it the "Moeller home control box"), although the Home Control Box is supposed to be developed for use with the Xanura system by Eaton Holec and Home Automation Europe. I asked around at the Eaton Holex Xanura booth. They had heard the comment a few times before from visitors and were quite surprised as in their opinion this should not be possible...
(Pieter: sorry for messing up this topic, but my posting started with led lamps anyway
.
Lennart
Some of the things I liked most:
- Philips RGB wallwasher (nice design, though still a prototype)
- Osram dragon-eye IP65 warm white mini led-spot
- Klemko Luxi warm white mini led-spot and dimmable led driver (both supplied by Lumotech, which we discussed before
Another interesting innovation was the linear dimmerable CFL by Megaman. It's the first "spaarlamp" that I know of that's dimmerable by a regular mains dimmer (note that Megaman used to have dimmerable CFLs (DorS series), but these had only 4 dim levels that could be operated by switching the light on and off repetitively). I think I'll buy one of these new CFLs to try it with a Xanura dim module to see how stable it is.
One final observation that surprised me somewhat: Moeller had a Home Control Box at their booth operating Moeller domotica modules (they called it the "Moeller home control box"), although the Home Control Box is supposed to be developed for use with the Xanura system by Eaton Holec and Home Automation Europe. I asked around at the Eaton Holex Xanura booth. They had heard the comment a few times before from visitors and were quite surprised as in their opinion this should not be possible...
(Pieter: sorry for messing up this topic, but my posting started with led lamps anyway
.Lennart
LED Lamps
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One final observation that surprised me somewhat: Moeller had a Home Control Box at their booth operating Moeller domotica modules (they called it the "Moeller home control box"), although the Home Control Box is supposed to be developed for use with the Xanura system by Eaton Holec and Home Automation Europe. I asked around at the Eaton Holex Xanura booth. They had heard the comment a few times before from visitors and were quite surprised as in their opinion this should not be possible...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hi Lennart,
That is really strange, are they using the X10 protocol as well?
As far as I know Moeller is calling there solution the "Xcomfort"
http://www.draadloosschakelen.nl
I'm not sure the Home Control Box is exclusively for Eaton Xanura?
Did Moeller make a deal with HAE? lets find out!
Regards Pieter
That is really strange, are they using the X10 protocol as well?
As far as I know Moeller is calling there solution the "Xcomfort"
http://www.draadloosschakelen.nl
I'm not sure the Home Control Box is exclusively for Eaton Xanura?
Did Moeller make a deal with HAE? lets find out!
Regards Pieter
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Hi Pieter,
Strange indeed, as the Xanura Home Control Box has been nominated as one of the main innovations of the Elektrotechniekbeurs (although it has been around for a year or so now.
I searched for "Moeller home control box" in Google and most results I got concerned either Moeller xor the home control box. However, there was one page that showed some information on the Elektrotechniekbeurs (it was only in the Google cache, not on the original page anymore). Here it is (in Dutch):
"Moeller Electric N.V.: De Moeller Home Control Box is een krachtige huiscomputer die toegepast kan worden in elke installatie. De Home Control Box communiceert met het draadloze schakelsysteem van Moeller, maar kan ook integratie tot stand brengen met andere systemen zoals bijvoorbeeld webcams, sensoren en alarmsystemen."
In other words: functionality seems to be identical. The people at Eaton Holec said that it might only be possible (but unlikely) if it was a simplified, very basic version, but I don't think it is. Even the software (the HCB portal) looked identical.
If I look at the Home Automation Europe site, I do see Moeller as one of their partners.
I had a close-up look at the Moeller Home Control Box while at the Elektrotechniekbeurs. Beside the power supply there was a USB connection that went straight into the wall of their booth, so I couldn't find out what exactly was connected to it, but I guess HAE and/or Moeller somehow managed to interface with de XComfort system (using their USB interface). On the HCB, the Moeller logo was placed where it usually sais Xanura.
Lennart
Strange indeed, as the Xanura Home Control Box has been nominated as one of the main innovations of the Elektrotechniekbeurs (although it has been around for a year or so now
.I searched for "Moeller home control box" in Google and most results I got concerned either Moeller xor the home control box. However, there was one page that showed some information on the Elektrotechniekbeurs (it was only in the Google cache, not on the original page anymore). Here it is (in Dutch):
"Moeller Electric N.V.: De Moeller Home Control Box is een krachtige huiscomputer die toegepast kan worden in elke installatie. De Home Control Box communiceert met het draadloze schakelsysteem van Moeller, maar kan ook integratie tot stand brengen met andere systemen zoals bijvoorbeeld webcams, sensoren en alarmsystemen."
In other words: functionality seems to be identical. The people at Eaton Holec said that it might only be possible (but unlikely) if it was a simplified, very basic version, but I don't think it is. Even the software (the HCB portal) looked identical.
If I look at the Home Automation Europe site, I do see Moeller as one of their partners.
I had a close-up look at the Moeller Home Control Box while at the Elektrotechniekbeurs. Beside the power supply there was a USB connection that went straight into the wall of their booth, so I couldn't find out what exactly was connected to it, but I guess HAE and/or Moeller somehow managed to interface with de XComfort system (using their USB interface). On the HCB, the Moeller logo was placed where it usually sais Xanura.
Lennart
LED Lamps
Looks like Eaton doesn't have the exclusive rights for the HCB. To be continued I guess
LED Lamps
Little more info about the HCB and Moeller:
http://www.homecontrolbox.nl/hae/portal ... llerhcbcom
Flexer
http://www.homecontrolbox.nl/hae/portal ... llerhcbcom
Flexer
LED Lamps
Thanks Flexer,
Thats very clear then, Eaton has not the exclusive rights!
You probably also know that the Homecontrolbox has adapted the RFXcom Visonic receiver a while ago. The first had a sort of crappy solution.
Sorry the announcement is in Dutch! (leuk omschreven trouwens [^])
Slimme koppeling met sensoren
Tot nu toe werden sensoren (bijvoorbeeld bewegingssensoren, deurcontacten en medaillons) gekoppeld via de digitale in- en output van de Home Control Box. Het installeren en configureren was hierdoor complex en tijdrovend. Het HAE-ontwikkelteam werkt momenteel aan een slimmere, softwarematige koppeling met Visonic producten. Hierbij wordt gebruik gemaakt van een RFXcom ontvanger.
Met een slimme koppeling wordt bedoeld dat er tweeweg communicatie is. Oftewel sensoren geven iedere 15 minuten aan de HCB door wat hun status is (o.a. batterij laag en sabotage alarm). Hierdoor kan slimmer omgegaan worden met onderhoud zoals het verwisselen van batterijen. De HCB kan zelfs via een email de bewoner en/of installateur waarschuwen dat een bepaalde batterij bijna leeg is.
btw: volgens mij gebruiken ze de rfxcom zender ook al voor het aansturen van de Harrison electrische gordijnen.
Thats very clear then, Eaton has not the exclusive rights!
You probably also know that the Homecontrolbox has adapted the RFXcom Visonic receiver a while ago. The first had a sort of crappy solution.
Sorry the announcement is in Dutch! (leuk omschreven trouwens [^])
Slimme koppeling met sensoren
Tot nu toe werden sensoren (bijvoorbeeld bewegingssensoren, deurcontacten en medaillons) gekoppeld via de digitale in- en output van de Home Control Box. Het installeren en configureren was hierdoor complex en tijdrovend. Het HAE-ontwikkelteam werkt momenteel aan een slimmere, softwarematige koppeling met Visonic producten. Hierbij wordt gebruik gemaakt van een RFXcom ontvanger.
Met een slimme koppeling wordt bedoeld dat er tweeweg communicatie is. Oftewel sensoren geven iedere 15 minuten aan de HCB door wat hun status is (o.a. batterij laag en sabotage alarm). Hierdoor kan slimmer omgegaan worden met onderhoud zoals het verwisselen van batterijen. De HCB kan zelfs via een email de bewoner en/of installateur waarschuwen dat een bepaalde batterij bijna leeg is.
btw: volgens mij gebruiken ze de rfxcom zender ook al voor het aansturen van de Harrison electrische gordijnen.