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mo046, thanks for sharing. Keep us informed.
Specialy the Plugwise and Homeseer interface.

Cheers, Verkenner

BTW Did the people from Enexis told you (with the Smart meter) they can switch off your electricity from remote

Today my gas & electricity meters where replaced.
The installed Gasmeter is a Flonidan directly connected to the Kamstrup Electricity meter.

The documentation i received by mail includes information about the Plugwise System.
Components used:
Hardware
* Plugwise Circles
* Plugwise Stretch Lite Pro P1

Software
* Plugwise Home Control
* Plugwise Smartphone Control

@mo046:
I noticed the sticker on the envelope indicates "_STEKKER" and the subject on the documentation is "Welkomspakket Slimme stekkers". It seems that Enexis is deploying 2 different systems Plugwise or Quby. There is no information on the Quby thermostate in my documentation.

Pepijn,
a few months back when I was selected for the pilot project, all information indicated that I would get the plugwise system. But now the installation guy handed the info about the meters over to me. In that info package also the info about the Quby was included. No word about Plugwise. So now I'm curious what I will get.

Well, I got a phonecall that next week they finally will come and install the Plugwise set. So no Quby thermostat.
Now wait and see how the setup will be.

Finally!

Yesterday my Plugwise set has been installed. Now my "Enexis Smart Meter Pilot Project" setup is complete. Well, sort of.

Let me summarize the setup: a smart Landis+Gyr gas meter is wirelessly connected to a smart Kamstrup electricity meter. The Kamstrup meter communicates to my energy supplier Enexis through GSM for remote meter reading. On the Kamstrup meter there is a so-called P1 port to which the end customer (that's me!) can connect to read out some meter values.

Here comes the Plugwise set into play. I received a complete Home Basic set (a Stick, a Circle+ and 8 normal Cicles). Furthermore, I received a so-called Stretch Pro which has to be connected to the smart meter's P1 port. The Source software is able to connect to the Stretch Pro and read the meter values. Obviously, the Stretch Pro also stores some measurement values when the Source software isn't connected. Just like a normal Circle does.
The Source software is exactly the same as for the current "normal" Plugwise sets (v2.16 (20110101.2)). The only difference is within the settings.ini file in which the IP address of the Stretch Pro needs to be defined.

But, on top of the normal Source software package (including a server, backup, configuration, etc.) there is a new software part which is the "Huis energiesysteem" (Home energy system). This is software which communicates with the Source/Server software. Basically, what it does, is that is analyses your energy consumption behaviour, measured by the Circles, for 14 days. You should use your electric equipment as usual. After the 14 days, an extra option within the software will become available in which the energy consumption is being analysed and, based upon that analysis, a scheme is proposed for each Circle. By means of that scheme (switching your electric equipment on or off at a specific time), energy could be saved. It looks like an advanced stand-by killer. As my 14 days have not passed, I can't tell you how good or bad it works. I'll keep you informed.

So now some words about the Stretch Pro. Plugwise had to develop hardware to connect the smart meters to the existing Plugwise hardware and software. So Plugwise took a Cisco (Linksys) WRT160NL router and made their own firmware for it. The firmware is based on OpenWRT and LuCi. Unfortunately I have no access to the configuration pages (password locked)

To connect the Stretch Pro to the P1 port Plugwise uses a FTDI TTL-232R-5V-WE cable which is an USB to TTL converter cable. More to that cable in this topic domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=16& ... =30#p48269. They use the 5V TTL as the request signal to trigger the P1 port to start sending the measurement data. I had already made a cable in the same way, to monitor the P1 data. Now, with the Stretch Pro installed, I still wanted to monitor the signal so I had to split the P1 signal. I used a standard telephone splitter, I only disconnected the 5V signal from my cable to avoid any unwanted disturbances. In fact, you only need one system to raise the request signal on the P1 port (in this case the Stretch Pro), and all other connected systems need to listen (RxD and GND of the FTDI cable). So now I'm able to monitor what data the Plugwise system is receiving.

The setup of the Stretch Pro on my home network was a little problematic, so in the end we ended up installing a complete new system te get everything working.

As I already have a Plugwise system, with a history of about one year I wanted to combine both systems. I made a backup of my old system and installed the new software. Unfortunately by restoring the update the new plugwise licence key is overwritten by the old one. Plugwise is now looking into a solution to get the new license key with my old data.

Next days and weeks I will monitor the system and give you feedback on how things work in practice.

Thanks for the review!

on the pricelist of plugwise they mention also a stretch lite without pro but not mentioned further on their website, what is the difference between this one and pro ?

labium

Probably the ability to read and send the P1 info to the source.

Nice review Maurice.

"in the end we ended up installing a complete new system" Did you reinstall the Stretch Pro plugin or Source ?
And can you tell someting about the software to read the P1-port.

And of course ..... the secured WRT160NL challenges to open
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt160nl

Thanks

Verkenner wrote:"in the end we ended up installing a complete new system" Did you reinstall the Stretch Pro plugin or Source ?

The service guy who came to install the Plugwise system was not really well instructed. He complained that he was only instructed 2 hours, and then was sent out with an installation manual and a support number at Plugwise.
It ended up that I could tell the guy more about Plugwise and IP networking than he knew himself.

The reason why I tell this is the way the Stretch Pro (let's call it "SP") has to be installed. I saw some of the instructions and the setup page, but that gave no clue of the reason of the odd setup.

First, the SP should be connected to my router. Not by WLAn but bij LAN. Tada!!!, problem number one: my router is far away from the router. The initial requirements communicated by Enexis said that a WLAN connection should be available, but it ended up not to be so. I don't know why Plugwise did'n use the WLAN cababilities of the Cisco Router, but it is a missed opportunity.
Well, as my router was too far away we had to use a home plug (LAN over the electric power lines). Problem number one solved.

Next thing that needed to be done is assigning an IP number. The instructions were to connect the SP to the LAN, look on the setup page which IP numer it has been assigned, and then enter a new IP number in a separate field. That number should contain the firts thre number pairs of the aggigned number (in my case 192.268.0), followed by a number between 210 and 230. It was not clear to me and the technician why the IP number should be in this range. So here we ended up with problem number two: my router's DHCP is configured to assign numbers in exactly that same range. So I decided to assign a fixed IP number for the SP.
To be short, after restart of the SP it didn't get any internet access anymore, even after I had removed the fixed IP in my router and restarting of both my router and the SP. After consulting Plugwise support, things got a bit clearer to me. What the smart guys at Plugwise intended to do with the new IP address (the one within the 210-230 range) was to assign a fixed IP address for the SP, so that after a reboot it wouldn't get a different IP address by the DHCP server, which would make it unfindable to the Plugwise Source software.
Somehow there must have been a network conflict with the MAC Address of the SP being linked to multiple IP addresses, but even multiple resets of the router and the SP didn't solve the problems. So in the end the technician installed a complete new Plugwise set (SP, Stick, Circles and License Key), just to be sure everything worked, and all components belonged to the same set. And finally it did work.

If Plugwise had been clear in their instructions of the purpose of the new IP address, these problems may be avoided. By the way, the reason why the IP address had to be in the 210 - 230 range of the subnet was explained to me by the guy from Plugwise Support. Their thought was that many people don't know the access password to their router's setup. So they wouldn't be able to assign fixed IP's. So Plugwise assumes that for any router it would be safe to set a fixed IP in the range of 210-230 because it will most probably not be used anyway (most routers assign IPs starting from 1 upwards). Well, not in my network !!!!!
Why oh why Plugwise makes this setup so difficult? If only they would make their instructions more clear this could be avoided. Or couldn't the Plugwise software not simply connect to the Host Name of the SP, because that is also a unique name. Than that would be indepentant of the IP address assigned to it.

And can you tell someting about the software to read the "P1-port.

No I can't because that is part of the Stretch Pro's customised firmware. That must be decoding the data telegrams sent by the P1 port. It's reading the Day and Night meter values, the actual power consumtion, and the gas meter value. Those must be stored within the SP, because it has the meter values available even when the Plugwise Source or Server software are not active (historical meter values are shown in Source when it has been started).

And of course ..... the secured WRT160NL asks to open

If only had been able to see the password ....

So the internet from your router is linked to the lan side of the Stretch Pro?
So your ip is fixed on the lan side aswell?

Think they didnt choose for the hostname option cause in some cases that doesnt work so well.
Maybe the reason they choose for lan setup would be the same as the fact that the ip would be in a certain range: allot of people dont know there wireless password
Still in my experience allot of times DHCP starts @ 1 or 100, so probebly in 99% of the time it will worlk this way (except for you and some other people who didnt let there internet get installed by the kid next door )

PietjeNL wrote:So the internet from your router is linked to the lan side of the Stretch Pro?
So your ip is fixed on the lan side aswell?

The WAN port of the Stretch Pro is connected to my LAN. The four LAN ports of the Stretch Pro actually are in a different subnet, so it still works as a router.

mo046 wrote:

And of course ..... the secured WRT160NL asks to open

If only I had been able to see the password ....

Check wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt160nl#f ... lsafe.mode
I'm a bit reluctant to reset the password. I guess Plugwise has some kind of access to the Stretch Pro through VPN, SSH or tunneling or something. When I change the password they may not have access anymore for updates or service/support.

Maurice, thanks for your extended description, very appreciated.

It takes a long ride to develop a new product. Plugwise does. But it's a hard job they did. Let's give them some credits.
But the the early bird (Maurice) catches the starters mistakes (verion 0) from the developer.

And Plugwise had to deal with many starting problems. E.g. Not every brand of kWh-meter sends the same telegram.
Yes, the kWh-meters are NTA complaint but the format of the telegrams are not the same.

For people who have running a PC 24/7 (e.g. a domotica-PC with Plugwise-Source) the P1 port of the kWH-meter can connected via the FTDI-TTL-232-5V-WE-Cable (min. 10 meters long) directly to the PC. In that case the router (WRT160NL) should not be needed.

The WRT160NL has extra LAN-ports. Extra ports are always handy and specially different subnet.
And fence off the backbone of my home-network for guests is an realy good idea. Guests can use the subnetwork

Using the WirelessLAN (in stead of cables) on the WRT160NL does not reduce the problems of customizing really.
In my house there are so many wireless systems that I expect interaction and interruptions (on air) real soon. That's why I like (short) cables.

"I used a standard telephone splitter........and all other connected systems need to listen.......So now I'm able to monitor what data the Plugwise system is receiving"
Did you make a home brew of software (VB or Pyton?) to read the P1-telegrams on your PC? Please can you tell someting about this software?

Did Plugwise provide you with a solution to combine your one-year old history and the new data? With the old or new licence key?

I expect the WRT160NL in my house real soon. Let's share the user experience. Can Plugwise make better products

Thanks for cooperation.

Verkenner wrote:It takes a long ride to develop a new product. Plugwise does. But it's a hard job they did. Let's give them some credits.
But the the early bird (Maurice) catches the starters mistakes (verion 0) from the developer.

I fully understand that I'm an early bird, that's why it is a pilot project and mistakes and problems will arrise. Although I'm still curious in what way I can give feedback to Enexis and Plugwise about my experiences. Not clear to me yet.

And Plugwise had to deal with many starting problems. E.g. Not every brand of kWh-meter sends the same telegram.
Yes, the kWh-meters are NTA complaint but the format of the telegrams are not the same.

In what way are the telegrams not the same? The format is fixed. Maybe the order in which the various items are reported may change. Text strings are limited in length.
What I already have seen is that my Kamstrup meter only sends (and shows on its display) the meter values in rounded kWh's. Eg, it shows 101.000 kWh, next value will then be 102.000 kWh, so with the 3 decimals, but in 1 kWh resolution. The Plugwise Source also shows only 1 kWh resolution for the meter. The P1 specification says it should have 0.001 kWh resolution, and display three decimals. So Kamstrup doesn't in my opinion follow the specs. This is really stupid! You loose a lot of information.
Also the current power consumtion is specified in 10 W resolution! Why? Is the meter so inaccurate?
Another stupid thing in the P1 spec: the gas consumption is updated only at the full our.!!! So I can't monitor how much a shower or a full bath costs, unless I don't use any gas during that hour. At least my Landis+Gyr meter shows the decimals.
In this way you can only see long term effects on energy consumption.

For people who have running a PC 24/7 (e.g. a domotica-PC with Plugwise-Source) the P1 port of the kWH-meter can connected via the FTDI-TTL-232-5V-WE-Cable (min. 10 meters long) directly to the PC. In that case the router (WRT160NL) should not be needed.

That is not a proper solution for the average consumer, so it's OK that Plugwise has a separate interface for that.

The WRT160NL has extra LAN-ports. Extra ports are always handy and specially different subnet.
And fence off the backbone of my home-network for guests is an realy good idea. Guests can use the subnetwork

But I rather won't put my guests in the meter cupboard to offer them internet access!!
I have a Fritz Router with separate guest access on WLAN, so no problems with fencing of the network.

Using the WirelessLAN (in stead of cables) on the WRT160NL does not reduce the problems of customizing really.
In my house there are so many wireless systems that I expect interaction and interruptions (on air) real soon. That's why I like (short) cables.

I prefer wired networking myself, but the Plugwise system must be a generic solution, so in my opinion it should offer both wired LAN and WLAN options (maybe even integrate Homeplug). Many people don't have wired internet, nor have the router near the smart meter. And Homelug also isn't always reliable (as I found out myself, as I had to change the adapters already due to instability).

"I used a standard telephone splitter........and all other connected systems need to listen.......So now I'm able to monitor what data the Plugwise system is receiving"
Did you make a home brew of software (VB or Pyton?) to read the P1-telegrams on your PC? Please can you tell someting about this software?

No, I just use a terminal program (Putty in my case) where can see the telegrams come by every 10 seconds. I would like to have an integration into Homeseer, separate from Plugwise, but I have no clue how to make a plugin. Maybe anybody here on the forum could help me on that.

Did Plugwise provide you with a solution to combine your one-year old history and the new data? With the old or new licence key?

Not yet, I'm waiting for feedback from them. One option suggested by the helpdesk is to link my old license to the pilot project. But I'm waiting for a final solution.