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Hi all,

I finally received the long awaited switches and wall outlets from the Niko Pure series, as introduced by Kris in http://www.domoticaforum.eu/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=204. I liked the looks of these and the fact that the switch has indicator leds, so I decided to install them in our kitchen. I had to wait for a long time for the Dutch wall outlets to become available in this series, but they're finally here.

I ordered some 6-way switches with blue leds, as in these pictures.





My idea was to put two Xanura AIX modules on one switch (not in the same "inbouwdoos", but one behind the switch itself and one behind a wall outlet next to it). The first AIX would then switch the 4 top most buttons. The other AIX would switch the remaining two buttons.

However, internally the 6-way switch is wired in such a way that all switches share a common connection. Here's a picture of the back of the switch.



In the picture you see connection points C1 and A through F. C1 is connected to each and every switch and each switch is connected to only one of A through F. The other connections on the bottom (with the leads) are for the leds (0-24V); these can be neglected for now.

I can thus connect one AIX with its common wire (blue) on C1 and the other 4 wires on A through D. That works well. So far, so good.

But what about the other AIX? My (probably naive) thought was to connect the common wire of the second AIX to C1 as well and the brown and red wires to E and F. However, using this setup, plugging in both AIX at the same time blows a fuse in the fuse box!

My questions:

- Why does the fuse blow? I thought all these AIX connections were potential free?

- Is there a way to accomplish what I'm trying to do here, or can I use only 4 switches of the 6-way switch with Xanura modules? (The switches and leds are mounted on a PCB that can not be easily modified to change the wiring.)

Thanks a lot in advance!

Lennart

P.S. What I forgot to mention: the 6 switches are potential free momentary switches ("impulsdrukkers").

I can't help you

This looks very interesting.
Hoop it will work...I will be the next to go for this.

That switch looks very nice. I can wait to hear about your experience. I am now working on the preparation of a new kitchen.
Can you tell us where you bought that switch?

@Chak: Thanks for thinking along .

My experiences so far: the switch works well with one AIX (or other Xanura module) with 4 of the 6 switches connected but I'm not able to use the additional 2 switches, because of the internal wiring and the fact that the fuse blows when connecting the common wires of two AIX modules (still puzzles me).

So, in the end, I decided to use just 4 of the 6 switches (top 2 and bottom 2); the other 2 switches/leds (the ones in the middle) are for decorational purposes only, as for now. I'll solve the "problem" of too few switches by ordering some more of these switches . The advantage of using them as a 4-way switch only is that each switch has its own module behind it.

Some comments on the switch itself and the way I use it:

* Note that the leds are 24V (as opposed to the one-switch version that Kris used which has a 230V led). So you need to supply 24V to the "inbouwdozen" in which you install these switches. Something to plan ahead for when building your kitchen! I tried 24V but found the leds rather bright. I also tried 12V and 5V to dim the leds and decided to run them at 5V only. That voltage gives a nice dim glow that doesn't distract and still serves well for the purpose of orientation (and high-tech coolness .

* The switches are quite thin; they don't take up a lot of space in the "inbouwdoos", so installing these in front of a Xanura module with all the 230V, 24V and potential free wires is quite easy.

* I've put the 5V adapter for the leds of all switches in my kitchen on a Xanura SAIX12, so I can turn the leds off. I have an event in Homeseer which turns on the leds at sunset and turns them off at sunrise.

* These switches are also available with amber and red leds. And if you don't want to buy a 6-way switch if you use only 4 of them, you can also get a 4-way version of this switch, which is basically looking the same as the 6-way version but with a blind in the middle. (I prefer the looks of the 6-way version. Note that you may decide to use only 4 of the 6 leds as well, as these can be connected individually.)

* The switch and border are available in different colors/materials (even real Bamboo wood...). I opted for an alu-grey border (real aluminium) with an anthracite/graphite inlay. See http://www.niko.nl/default.aspx?PageID=190&Culture=nlnl for the different options.

* The leds may be either used for orientation (continuously on) or to reflect the status of the connected devices. For the latter option, you'll need to have something that can close the 24V circuit for the particular led (SAX15/PIOX15 if you really want) and you'll need to run additional wires. I use them for orientation only (the simple option .

@binkiem: Although the Niko Pure series can now be ordered from Dutch shops as well, I ordered these switches through a Belgian webshop: DMLights / Paul de Meutter (http://www.dmlights.be). But beware: the Belgian version of these switches differs from the Dutch version, because the way of mounting these switches is different in Belgium. However, as long as you don't want to use these switches vertically (i.e. two or more above each other, instead of next to each other), you can just use the Belgian ones (I verified this with Niko Netherlands before taking the plunge). For the gory details, have a look at: http://www.niko.nl/docs/manuals/PM257-096.pdf. In Holland, you'd normally order 170-67111. I ordered 170-60110 instead, which works just as well (you can remove the "claws" that are mentioned in the pdf). Don't forget to order the keys for the switches (anthracite: 122-60100).

Another thing to consider is that you can't use the "standard" Belgian wall outlets, as the earth pin is a real pin in Belgium instead of the Dutch "randaarde". However, DMLights can order Dutch wall outlets for you (this will take some time, though); these will have "child protection" build in. The product numbers are 170-34100 (wall outlet) and 122-66901 (anthracite inlay) which are not in their online shop; ask them by e-mail.

Why I ordered the Belgian stuff in Belgium and go through the hassle? Well, because of the price difference. I requested a price quote from Elektroshop (reasonably prices Dutch webshop, http://www.elektroshop.nl) for the 6-way switch: EUR 71,- including VAT. The Belgian version is EUR 51,- (i.e. the Dutch version is 40% more expensive). The same goes for the other Niko Pure components.

I guess that's about all there is to this. If you have any questions left, let me know.

Lennart

Hi Lennart,

The way you connect the 2 Xanura AIX modules should be possible if you are not connecting the other AIX on a different group or phase and not switching the NUL and fase wire.
So if both modules are being wired from within 1 group (groep) and Fase and NUL (0) are connected right and not switched than this should work!

Hi Pieter,

That's strange as that is exactly what I did: connect both AIX modules on the same wall outlet (=> same phase and group) and I did pay attention to the Live/neutral wiring. I'll try again, also with two IMX10 modules. That should make no difference, right?

Thanks,

Lennart

Hi Lennart,
Right, but please wait, I know your technical skills a bit and don't think you made a mistake on this. I dropped your experience on this to my contact at Xanura.
I know they probably will tell the same but then we know for sure.

Hi Pieter,

Rereading the topic and your post, made me realise that where I wrote that I put both AIX on the same wall outlet for testing, they are actually two wall outlets next to each other and although I did pay attention to the way in which the phase and neutral wire were connected to the wall outlets, I didn't check the wiring inside of the wall outlets, so it could still be the case that these have the neutral/live wires on different pins. I'll open the wall outlets tonights to check this...

Thanks for asking the people at Xanura, anyway!

Lennart

Hi Lennart,
No problem, that must be it
please let us hear your findings then we know that in also works in practice!

Hi Pieter,

I checked the wall outlets and, as expected, it turns out they were wired diffently. (Shame on me for not thinking about this earlier...) To retest, I connected two IMX10 modules to really the same wall outlet this time, connected their blue potential free common wires, and now it worked: no blown fuses and correct sending of X10/A10 commands of both modules. I also tested it with one AIX and one IMX10. Same results: it all works.

I didn't test them on the Niko Pure switches yet, as I already built these in and didn't have time for that (will do this next weekend or so). But given the internal wiring of these switches, I'm sure I can now use all 6 switches of the 6-way switch.

Problem solved, case closed. Thanks for explicitly mentioning the neutral/phase issue, as it made me rethink the whole wiring!

One other thing: I also found out that connecting the blue potential free wire from one module to some other coloured wire of the other module also sends a command, so you don't even actually need to interconnect the blue wires of the modules and both modules will still work!

Lennart

Great that it works, and thank for the interesting topic