Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

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Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Tue May 31, 2016 9:08 pm

Please post your questions/tips/remarks related to Eneco's Toon's boiler module here.

grtz,

marcelr
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Tom » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:33 pm

To kickoff then lets go on with 'fixing' the boiler module in this topic. This is a followup on this post; domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=87& ... 330#p79832

Interesting find, what hardware/software did you use (besides AVRdude and a raspberriy pi, and yes, I never used SPI before )?
Pinouts etc would also be helpful.

Then back to the problem: If it's not the firmware, do you hear clicks when toon boots and tries to connect to the module?

You don't happen to have an OTGW, by the way? Could be useful for testing toon's side of the protocol. Since some (sensible) data are coming through, maybe voltage levels are outside the levels of the OT protocol, and therefore communication stalls.

Then, for automated testing, if you can build code for toon, you might want to download and compile the boiler interfacing code that I posted a while ago. Doesn't do any fancy stuff, but tries to contact the module a lot more times before giving up, and can easily be modified to keep trying indefinitely. If you can't build that code, just yell, will try and make an .ipk package for it.

BTW toon tries 3 times and then decides it's a bang-bang controlled boiler. Every time you push the "controleren" button, you should hear the clicks.

grtz,

marcelr


Besides a Raspberry Pi and installing AVRdude I used 4x1Kohm resistors between the RPi and the module. The pinout for the module is a standard 6 pin ISP interface:
Image

I got the connection working by using the following guide;
rototron.info/raspberry-pi-avr-programm ... -tutorial/

Important note
When the power adapter is connected to the module, the pins are returning 5v and the RPi can only have 3.3v on the gpio pins. Therefore do not connect the adapter to the module while connected to the RPi!


Back to the problem;
I do not own a OTGW since i chose to use Toon for this.

When the module is connected only to Toon the output voltage is a steady 24 volts but it doesn't give any clicks coming from the module when connecting power or when clicking 'Controleren'.

Just to be shure; should I always connect the module to the boiler when testing or is only connecting the module to Toon enough to not get the "Verbinding met Ketelmodule verbroken" message?

With building code for toon you mean be able to bitbake the whole OE tree?
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:47 pm

When the module is connected only to Toon the output voltage is a steady 24 volts but it doesn't give any clicks coming from the module when connecting power or when clicking 'Controleren'.


That's not good. When you hit "controleren", the module switches two relays at the boiler side of the module, and you should be able to hear the click of their switching. At least, that's what happens with my module, I'm not sure if the hardware over the years has changed such that the relays have been replaced with something else (e.g., solid-state relays). After the first click, three attempts to test OT capability are done, if unsuccessful, the module switches back to bang-bang control, and you will hear the clicks again.

Just to be shure; should I always connect the module to the boiler when testing or is only connecting the module to Toon enough to not get the "Verbinding met Ketelmodule verbroken" message?


The module sends at maximum three OT request to the boiler (typically ID 0 or ID1, but others are possible too, depending on the state of the module). The boiler (If it supports OT), replies at least with an acknowledge or "id unknown" OT datagram. So yes, you will need to have a boiler attached for toon to accept that it's talking to an OT-capable device.

With building code for toon you mean be able to bitbake the whole OE tree?

Or at least have a working toolchain for an ARM 926EJS. The oe tree is preferable, though.

grtz,

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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:27 pm

Brief addendum:

There are at least two types of boiler modules:

PN 6500-1200-2000
and
PN 6500-1200-4801

I have the 4801, so that one should click :-). The 2000 has similar relays on board, so probably should click as well.

grtz,

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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Tom » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:15 am

Hi Marcelr,

It has been a long time since I have been trying to get my Toon's boiler module to work, I gave up after our last contact. However I picked it up yesterday and tried to make it work again. I factory reset it, placed back my backups of the configs from right after the root and opened the VPN again to update to v3.6. All this didn't make any difference and I am still getting no response from the boiler module. The interesting thing I noticed after reading all the threads again is that the module has PN 6500-1300-0300 on the pcb and PN 6500-1200-4801 on the casing. When I am trying to do the controleren option it doesn't click. I am out of options and thinking about getting a replacement from marktplaats.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:43 pm

Can it do on/off control?
(Just hook it up to your boiler, set the temperature to a high level and see what happens).
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Tom » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:20 am

It doesn't do anything, not even on/off control. Still getting the message the module is not connected. I am looking for a new one on MP and will see if I can find any difference between the two. When I have some more information I will let you know.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Tom » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:52 pm

Yesterday I got my hands on a new Toon. I connected the Boiler module to my rooted toon and all worked like a charm. It started with clicks like marcelr said and checking the control switched it to OpenTherm directly.
If anyone has another idea on how to check why the other module is defect, please let me know and I can look into it.
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Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Smiggel » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:35 pm

Guys, I have an issue here. I bought a secondhand Toon online. I reset it to factory defaults and rooted it. It works all fine and I updated to the latest software successfully. I still have full control of the Toon.

I now connected the toon to my CV. It's connected using OpenTherm ports on the CV. However, it looks like Toon is not detecting the CV supports OpenTherm. My old on-off thermostat used it too.

So I asked around and hear signals that because my Toon is second hand, it will remember the settings of the previous user. Is there anyway to reset this, so Toon will see my own CV as the correct one and use OpenTherm? Now it says "Warmte" as heat type in Settings (instellingen) -> Heating (Verwarming)
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Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:38 pm

Balderdash. The boiler module doesn't remember anything, and Toon checks for OT every reboot and every time you hit the "Controleren" button.

But if it talks about "warmte" you might want to check the product number of your module.
Boiler modules have been made in a few varieties of PCB layout.

The product numbers for OT boiler modules are at least (list is not exhaustive):

6500-1200-2000
6500-1200-4801

So, if your boiler module is one of those, it should support OT. If it doesn't, either your boiler doesn't support OT, or your boiler module is broken.

BTW, moved your post to the right topic.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Smiggel » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:02 pm

marcelr wrote:Balderdash. The boiler module doesn't remember anything, and Toon checks for OT every reboot and every time you hit the "Controleren" button.

But if it talks about "warmte" you might want to check the product number of your module.
Boiler modules have been made in a few varieties of PCB layout.

The product numbers for OT boiler modules are at least (list is not exhaustive):

6500-1200-2000
6500-1200-4801

So, if your boiler module is one of those, it should support OT. If it doesn't, either your boiler doesn't support OT, or your boiler module is broken.

BTW, moved your post to the right topic.



Hmmm ok. I guess I have to unscrew the boiler module then and have a look at the number. Opentherm used to work fine, so I assume it had something to do with the module.

Thanks for the information.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Smiggel » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:17 pm

marcelr wrote:Balderdash. The boiler module doesn't remember anything, and Toon checks for OT every reboot and every time you hit the "Controleren" button.

But if it talks about "warmte" you might want to check the product number of your module.
Boiler modules have been made in a few varieties of PCB layout.

The product numbers for OT boiler modules are at least (list is not exhaustive):

6500-1200-2000
6500-1200-4801

So, if your boiler module is one of those, it should support OT. If it doesn't, either your boiler doesn't support OT, or your boiler module is broken.

BTW, moved your post to the right topic.


Looking at the config files config_happ_scsync.xml it says it’s version 6500-1200-4801. :-(

That means something is wrong here. My Intergas does support Opentherm. It used to work like that before with the standard thermostat. It’s Also connected the same way.

Will a factory reset help?
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby marcelr » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:37 pm

No. factory reset just clears all data from toon, regarding electricity consumption and the likes. OT support has got nothing to do with it.

There is a possibility that you need to try and force Toon to do OT support for quite a few times. For my Nefit, I had to push the button on Toon several times before it decided that OT support was possible after all.
For the exact type, just look at the rear of the module. If you bought your Toon from a trader, module and display may not have belonged together.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby Smiggel » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:58 pm

marcelr wrote:No. factory reset just clears all data from toon, regarding electricity consumption and the likes. OT support has got nothing to do with it.

There is a possibility that you need to try and force Toon to do OT support for quite a few times. For my Nefit, I had to push the button on Toon several times before it decided that OT support was possible after all.
For the exact type, just look at the rear of the module. If you bought your Toon from a trader, module and display may not have belonged together.


I check the device number op the device. It's 6500-1200-4801 according to the sticker on the device.

How do I force it? I don't seem to have the option to do that. I've attached a picture with what I see in the settings page.
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Re: Hardware: Toon boiler module, "ketelmodule"

Postby TheHogNL » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:46 pm

Smiggel wrote:
marcelr wrote:No. factory reset just clears all data from toon, regarding electricity consumption and the likes. OT support has got nothing to do with it.

There is a possibility that you need to try and force Toon to do OT support for quite a few times. For my Nefit, I had to push the button on Toon several times before it decided that OT support was possible after all.
For the exact type, just look at the rear of the module. If you bought your Toon from a trader, module and display may not have belonged together.


I check the device number op the device. It's 6500-1200-4801 according to the sticker on the device.

How do I force it? I don't seem to have the option to do that. I've attached a picture with what I see in the settings page.



Your picture is showing a 'heating' configuration of Toon (like 'stadsverwarming') instead of a boiler configuration. You probably screwed up your settings (i think the scsync file, check it there).
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