ZonOpToon alternative

Forum about Toon hardware, both versions 1 and 2 of Toon

Moderators: marcelr, TheHogNL, Toonz

hansgrave
Starting Member
Starting Member
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:42 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by hansgrave »

I don'tno why but my virusscanner marks the url to a kwH meter used by vso as a defected page.
Homey, rooted Toon 1 and HomeAssistent.
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

marcelr wrote:Depending on the type of S0 contact you can just attach a lead along the lines of the sketches drawn in this thread.

If you S0 contact is potential free, you will also need a power supply to your contact, and wire it such that you have active low pulses with time intervals proportional to instantaneous power output of the inverter. Timing typically 0.02s low, rest high, input impedance to signal 4k7-10kOhm, input impedance to Vcc typically 330- 1kOhm. Then your S0 connection gets recognized as a valid sensor.
Ho, stop there mate :) S0 is always potential free. It is the toon meteradapter which feeds the line and when S0 connection is made it drops to 0 which counts as a pulse :)
So just take the drawing from 2nd page of this thread and you are done.
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:
marcelr wrote:Depending on the type of S0 contact you can just attach a lead along the lines of the sketches drawn in this thread.

If you S0 contact is potential free, you will also need a power supply to your contact, and wire it such that you have active low pulses with time intervals proportional to instantaneous power output of the inverter. Timing typically 0.02s low, rest high, input impedance to signal 4k7-10kOhm, input impedance to Vcc typically 330- 1kOhm. Then your S0 connection gets recognized as a valid sensor.
Ho, stop there mate :) S0 is always potential free. It is the toon meteradapter which feeds the line and when S0 connection is made it drops to 0 which counts as a pulse :)
So just take the drawing from 2nd page of this thread and you are done.
thx i figured as much .. just search for confirmation.
Edgar
Starting Member
Starting Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 10:31 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by Edgar »

TheHogNL wrote: If you want better, get a kwh meter that counts only one way. For example the Inepro Pro1 which Eneco used to installed before they switched to the zwave qubino kwh meter.
What is the exact name of the Qubino kWh meter? Is this one better than the Inepro one and what's the difference between these two?
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

Edgar wrote:
TheHogNL wrote: If you want better, get a kwh meter that counts only one way. For example the Inepro Pro1 which Eneco used to installed before they switched to the zwave qubino kwh meter.
What is the exact name of the Qubino kWh meter? Is this one better than the Inepro one and what's the difference between these two?
ZMNHTD1

nice price at amazon https://www.amazon.nl/Qubino-ZMNHTD1-Sm ... 8392&psc=1

The qubino is digital and sends the data wireless to the Toon. The inepro needs an analog sensor attached to it and the meteradapter (which then sends it wireless).
So the data from the qubino is far more reliable and more precise.
Member of the Toon Software Collective
marcelr
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Ehv

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by marcelr »

TheHogNL wrote: So the data from the qubino is far more reliable and more precise.
Precision is nice, but the big question is: Which one is the most accurate?
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

I would guess the Qubino as with the analoge option the pulses could be missed sometimes.
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:I would guess the Qubino as with the analoge option the pulses could be missed sometimes.
There is always a chance for errors, what is the impact is IMHO more important .. 1 to 3 % is acceptable i guess.
marcelr
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Ehv

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by marcelr »

Accuracy in this case has nothing much to do with the way the data are recorded/transmitted. The more accurate meter will give you a number closer to e.g., 10kWh when your energy production is exactly 10kWh. If your data transmission is perfect, but the meter itself is 2% off, a more accurate meter with e.g. 0.5% error, and 1% data loss in transmission will give you a better overall number than the one with perfect data transmission in this example. BTW three percent off is not really acceptable in a modern kWh meter.
In my installation (Kostal PIKO 4.2 inverter, with S0 data transmission+some serious data massage and separate readout over ethernet) the difference between the inverter's own power assessment (ethernet) and S0 pulses is less than 0.5%. Not so bad, if you ask me. Don't have a separate kWh meter for solar power. No more space left in my fusebox.
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

Martin101010 wrote:
TheHogNL wrote:
marcelr wrote:Wiring to an S0 contact should work, will try and find my notes about the wiring. This takes some digging, it's been almost two years ...
Would be nice. Toon's connection is a standard 3.5mm stereo audio jack but the s0 has only two connections so I am curious how this should be connected. I once tried to emulate the S0 using direct wire tot the module 3-point jack but couldn't get the Toon to recognize my input.
I think it is like thisImage

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk
I have finally recieved https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33058354 ... 4c4d08VplE connected and s0 + and s0 - a wire (ordered 3) .. to test. (10,- euro a piece)
the cheap one has only S0 + and - the bit more expensive one has also a rs485 connection. I am currently testing the cheaper one of the 2..

However using a cable to connect like the picture referenced S0 + to (2-4) and S0 - to (1) is not working .. I tried to switch

The default cable of the toon uses (1) and (3) and not 2-4 I have tried this cable both .. ways around to no avail ..

the meter itself showed some "usage" (20kwh) ..

Since there is no sunlight I stopped trying ..

the meteradapter is one (according to searching here on the forum) one that should communicate the s0 data to the toon itself .. (serial contains ...500 or such if i remember correctly)

when connected correctly and activated "toon op zon" (tile) should it show directly a 0 or "input" it now shows a "-" sign .. might take time ???
I gave all connection tests I did a minute or 4 or so .. checked the toon and then reconnected the setup to a different wiring .

if this works .. 10,- is a nice price to add :) this feature right ?
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

You have the old drawing. Read this one which adds another wire you are missing:
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=11969&start=15#p85351
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:You have the old drawing. Read this one which adds another wire you are missing:
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=11969&start=15#p85351
Thank you very very Much !
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

wierd ...

my normal consumption is 200 to 400 Watt (normal steady usage during the day)

Image
this picuture comes from node-red (zwave-getdevices url translated to GUI)
name: "HAE_METER_v3_5" internalAddress: "3.5" type: "elec_received_nt" showed (in debug) a value of 90 and now 0


I saw "Current Now-Solar(Dual Meter) NL=Normal Tarief" (3rd one) .. changing to lets say 400 Watt .. (sun is gone now) so it look like the meter is reporting (this is I think the first time i have seen that number change since rooting/

so it seems i have a "gap" between in/out .. or not ?? the growatt phone app reports 200WP +/- being generated ..

Also the toon does not display any usage .. in the "production" graph or on the "toonopzon" tile ..

since the sun is "gone" and has only showed itself for 15min to 30min ..

is this my impatience or is it explainable .. ( I would expect a "its working" or "its not working" now it seems "kinda works" ) since I have been expecting "stupid" things .. or i was looking in the wrong place
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

vso wrote:wierd ...

my normal consumption is 200 to 400 Watt (normal steady usage during the day)

Image
this picuture comes from node-red (zwave-getdevices url translated to GUI)
name: "HAE_METER_v3_5" internalAddress: "3.5" type: "elec_received_nt" showed (in debug) a value of 90 and now 0


I saw "Current Now-Solar(Dual Meter) NL=Normal Tarief" (3rd one) .. changing to lets say 400 Watt .. (sun is gone now) so it look like the meter is reporting (this is I think the first time i have seen that number change since rooting/

so it seems i have a "gap" between in/out .. or not ?? the growatt phone app reports 200WP +/- being generated ..

Also the toon does not display any usage .. in the "production" graph or on the "toonopzon" tile ..

since the sun is "gone" and has only showed itself for 15min to 30min ..

is this my impatience or is it explainable .. ( I would expect a "its working" or "its not working" now it seems "kinda works" ) since I have been expecting "stupid" things .. or i was looking in the wrong place
I have a hard time to understand what your problem is.
But are you sure you are measuring the solar production in the right direction (so you have connected the kWh meter 'the other way around')?
And did you configure the imp/kwh on the Toon correctly?

The house usage is calculated when using toonopzon instead of directly showing what the P1 port is reading. The house usage is: (P1 Grid imported) or if zero then: (kWh-meter-Solar-production) minus (P1 Grid exported)
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:I have a hard time to understand what your problem is.

200 Watt - 400watt + = "basic usage when we are at home .. " measured before PV panels where installed. lets keep it at 200 Watt

In previous post 1 (current now-low) = 81 Watt should be higher so therefore you may conclude "power is being generated" .. so 200 -81 = 119 generated by PV (minimum generation of course)
so i expect "current-now-Solar" to show that 119Watt..

As you can see in this picture "current now-low" = 0 Watt (1) (this should be at least 200 ) ..
and the 2 (current now-solar is 1049 .. should be 1249)

Image

of course I get the 200 is subtracted from A and/or B ... so my explaintion is not to be regarded as exact .. I hope it just clarifies that i am "missing" the 200Watt somewhere ..

ps please regard the 200Watt as a example figure .. i could be off by 100 watt or such ..



But are you sure you are measuring the solar production in the right direction (so you have connected the kWh meter 'the other way around')?

It is showing the right direction .. so your tip about connecting all wires is correct
FYI Panels --> inverter --> measureing thingy ---> breaker
and I don't think the inverter "uses" 1049Watt ;)


And did you configure the imp/kwh on the Toon correctly?

I think so where can I change this on the toon ? .. fyi the 2000 impulse thing .. is the same as posts in this thread .. so I think it should be not to far off .. hard to compare A to B currently .. (toon vs direct data from inverter) ..
I don';t think i need to change a lot .

The house usage is calculated when using toonopzon instead of directly showing what the P1 port is reading. The house usage is: (P1 Grid imported) or if zero then: (kWh-meter-Solar-production) minus (P1 Grid exported)
let me ponder this one .. i get it but don't yet fully "understand" .. (kwartje moet ff vallen)
Post Reply

Return to “Toon Hardware”