ZonOpToon alternative

Forum about Toon hardware, both versions 1 and 2 of Toon

Moderators: marcelr, TheHogNL, Toonz

TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

vso wrote: the KWH meter does pulse (LED indicator) at a ~5sec interval
So you would have 3600 / 5 = 720 pulses per hour.

With a 2000imp/kwh meter you are now doing 720 / 2000 = 0,36 kW = 360 Watt. Does that seem right?

And does the meteradapter screen of the Toon now seem right? No 'geen sensoren gevonden' message anymore?
Member of the Toon Software Collective
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

If I remember/understand correctly
- one of the 3 is the "pulse" signal, in this case the cable marked on the micro jack as "1" ? .. you need to short this because S0 only has in(+) and out (-)
- by shorting + and - once all is connected the LED shoud flash on the meteradapter.

so by shorting (when constant green) + and - the led would stay off and turn back on .. when let go

By shorting you simulate a S0 pulse.

The green led on the meteradapter has two options:
- constant green: the meteradapter has not detected the pulses 'sensor' yet (normally it detect the old sensors here)
- momentary green eachs few seconds: detecting pulses, should be as fast as the led on the kwh meter

The first step, detecting the sensor, is why you need to connect ground (2-4) to the middle ring (pin 1 in the picture). The outer pin (number 3 in the picture) is the s0 detect pin. When that is shorted to ground a pulse is detected.

There is a slight possibility your S0 pulses are to fast or to slow for the Toon to detect. Our your S0 is just not working.
Member of the Toon Software Collective
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

For a demonstration see this video which I just made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw93R2haOr8

Black is (2-4), red is (1) and orange is (3).

Black and red are wired together (on the breadboard). Between those two and orange there is a button.

when I reset the meteradapter both greed leds first blink (to show a boot up sequence) then the yellow icon green led is going constant on, indicating a detection sequence on the zonoptoon sensor. Then when I press the button (shorting pin 3 to ground), after three pulses the meteradapter has detected my 'sensor' and follows my button clicks. As simpel as that. The S0 port is doing exactly what the green button does.
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:For a demonstration see this video which I just made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw93R2haOr8

Black is (2-4), red is (1) and orange is (3).

Black and red are wired together (on the breadboard). Between those two and orange there is a button.

when I reset the meteradapter both greed leds first blink (to show a boot up sequence) then the yellow icon green led is going constant on, indicating a detection sequence on the zonoptoon sensor. Then when I press the button (shorting pin 3 to ground), after three pulses the meteradapter has detected my 'sensor' and follows my button clicks. As simpel as that. The S0 port is doing exactly what the green button does.
thx this clarifies a lot !

but this still does not clearifies s0+ and S- (the constant green) ..

I checked with a multimeter (continuity setting) 2-4 (black) and 1 (red) are "connected" and beep when testing
orange does not beep.. unless I press the button .

so therefore S0+ and S0 - are sending a constant signal .. (reversing those 2) should give a "pulse" (best guess)


ps I missed the 5 x 720 ....post = 360 watt and yes that sounds about right giving i am "using only 80 watt" via P1 feedback .. so
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:For a demonstration see this video which I just made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw93R2haOr8

Black is (2-4), red is (1) and orange is (3).

Black and red are wired together (on the breadboard). Between those two and orange there is a button.

when I reset the meteradapter both greed leds first blink (to show a boot up sequence) then the yellow icon green led is going constant on, indicating a detection sequence on the zonoptoon sensor. Then when I press the button (shorting pin 3 to ground), after three pulses the meteradapter has detected my 'sensor' and follows my button clicks. As simpel as that. The S0 port is doing exactly what the green button does.

Like I "started" .. "het kwartje is gevallen" .. I get it now ..

s0 - and s0 + = just a "short" aka button being pressed ever time "watt" is produced .. right so either polarity should work .. reversing both cables would not matter ..

I replaced the whole unit .. and now 3.2 shows "usage" .. it changes .. :) the tile is showing data
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

vso wrote:
Like I "started" .. "het kwartje is gevallen" .. I get it now ..

s0 - and s0 + = just a "short" aka button being pressed ever time "watt" is produced .. right so either polarity should work .. reversing both cables would not matter ..

I replaced the whole unit .. and now 3.2 shows "usage" .. it changes .. :) the tile is showing data
Ok so the s0 is broken on the first unit :-)
Member of the Toon Software Collective
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

vso wrote:... pulse... every time "watt" is produced .
To be exact. Your PV doesn't produce watt. It produces joules which also can be calculated as watthour (3600 J is 1 watthour). Watt is for an amount over power at a specific, like the amount of water flow in a water pipe. Watthours is like the amount of water in liters over a given time.

Each pulse on the kWh meter does NOT count Watts (like, you can not count the flow of water. Flow of water in a pipe is just a number, not a counter). The led in the kWh meter counts watthours, like each pulse tells you that a bucked of water is filled.

With a 2000imp/kwh kWh meter each pulse means 0.5 watthour of energy produced. And so, 2000 pulses is exactly 1 kWh (kilowatthour) :-)
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote: Ok so the s0 is broken on the first unit :-)
I guess :roll: :D might be me .. who dun it ..
TheHogNL wrote:
vso wrote:... pulse... every time "watt" is produced .
To be exact. Your PV doesn't produce watt. It produces joules which also can be calculated as watthour (3600 J is 1 watthour). Watt is for an amount over power at a specific, like the amount of water flow in a water pipe. Watthours is like the amount of water in liters over a given time.

Each pulse on the kWh meter does NOT count Watts (like, you can not count the flow of water. Flow of water in a pipe is just a number, not a counter). The led in the kWh meter counts watthours, like each pulse tells you that a bucked of water is filled.

With a 2000imp/kwh kWh meter each pulse means 0.5 watthour of energy produced. And so, 2000 pulses is exactly 1 kWh (kilowatthour) :-)
not to be arrogant .. but i might be .. ;) I understood this part.. (bucket full = pulse and start over ..with empty bucket )

failure to understand that s0 - and s0 + is just a part of a button .. and why shorting the cables would work/test situation and a broken unit didn't help

Anyway many thanks for your advice ! and patiance ! ..



https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33058354021.html for 7,68 + 1,03 delivery costs .. its a lot less then 80,- or 100,- euro :) even if you buy 2 :D
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

To recap (anyone who whants to know): (thanks to TheHogNL) .. i just "condensed" the long thread to a manual please thank the team not me .. I did the easy part .. they did the hard part

order : https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33058354021.html for 7,68 + 1,03 delivery costs (for mine)
when recieved ..
- start with the "toonadapter cable" to powermeter and connect that first! (makes a bit harder) however you are not able to easily connect afterwards.. ps .. dont use to "thin" cables.. (speaker cable) for 15 cm is better

power off the solar inverter (no power will be produced because it will not recieve the 50hz signal ..so no need to be afraid) I did it when the sun was down .. no need to lose generated power..
On the side it says "n-n" (Normal/neutral) or "blue' wire ..) and F-F (Fase) or the Brown wire these are easily identifyable on your "solar" connection .. to make sure a volt meter will indicate (the one with a light) that the Fase wire is "hot" or lit up and a neutral/normal should stay "off") or ask a specialist before disconnecting make a note /picture how everything is connected NOW
The wire that connects from the solar inverter --> to your surge/breakerbox (meterkast) goes to N and F of the power meter and from the powermeter you "reconnect" the cables (same color prefferably)


connect S0 + (to 2-4 and 1 short these) and S0 - to 3
Image

ps make sure your "cables" from meter (2 wire ) to microjack (3 wire) are long enough to "test" ..

Then after connection the "physical cables" do not plug everything in..
- Enter toon TSC menu --> activate "toon op zon" and let it reboot (wil be a message that it needs to reboot)
- verify the location of the "solar" tile it should be showing "-"
- enter "meteradapter' menu in settings
- add toon sensor "solar"
then setup the sensor
Image
Image
please check/note that your meter has the same values !

then unplug the meteradapter from walloutlet, insert "microjack" and plug back into the wall outlet.
Image
The green LED next to the microjack you just inserted .. should stay on for a "few" seconds .. and turn off then return to the Toon

on the toon the solar tile should "animate" when data is recieved ..


if this does not work watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw93R2haOr8 ---> S0 + and S0 - touching each other will be the same as a button press as shown in the vid.
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:
vso wrote:
Like I "started" .. "het kwartje is gevallen" .. I get it now ..

s0 - and s0 + = just a "short" aka button being pressed ever time "watt" is produced .. right so either polarity should work .. reversing both cables would not matter ..

I replaced the whole unit .. and now 3.2 shows "usage" .. it changes .. :) the tile is showing data
Ok so the s0 is broken on the first unit :-)
no the s0 is not working .. on both units :( it does not "latch" (push the button) .. the LED does flash ..
I mistook that it worked because of sun going down and the PV was not generating .. now its more sunny .. so ..

The green LED on the meteradapter does turn of after a few pulses (it has identified the type of "connection)

so I now connected a puls reader (the default you got years back for your electric meter and needed to stick with doublesided tape .) with the supplied cable (white microjack cable)
the LED stays green so its not reading the pulses ??? (I first alligned the hole of the clear plastic "mount" with the LED pulse, before I pushed in the "reader")
Then reseated the meteradapter in the wall outlet ..

Do i need to change the setup in the sensor settings ? or should it automagicly pick it up

ps I had dificulty with the meteradapter to have it see any "pulse" (push the button) when i tested it yesterday ..

I disassembeld the broken unit .. the connector is "broken" .. not the unit .. it stil pulses .. so resoldering that part is quick job..

in worst case scenario .. i can setup my own pulse /push button thingy ... I would like to prevent it though ..

I have more "spare" parts ..
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

I really don't understand what you are doing wrong. Normally it isn't that hard to get this working.
This setup works for more people and they just went to kwhmeter.nl to buy a proper meter (only like 20 euro's).

The S0 method (with the modified 3.5mm jack) or the old style led sensor method is for the toon exactly the same, you don't need to change anything.
The green LED on the meteradapter does turn of after a few pulses (it has identified the type of "connection)
So this is good. But it does not pick up the pulses after this?
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:I really don't understand what you are doing wrong. Normally it isn't that hard to get this working.
This setup works for more people and they just went to kwhmeter.nl to buy a proper meter (only like 20 euro's).

The S0 method (with the modified 3.5mm jack) or the old style led sensor method is for the toon exactly the same, you don't need to change anything.
lol .. it is not your/my fault in that sense .. something is not matching .. and i am trying to find the culprit ..

just sharing ..
The green LED on the meteradapter does turn of after a few pulses (it has identified the type of "connection)
So this is good. But it does not pick up the pulses after this?
I think you misunderstood .. if i do the test(s) you describe "it works" ..

Whenever I hookup the "old style led sensor" or the S0 connection the green led stays constant.. replugging connections does not help ..

it could be something is broken .. but a pulsing (red) LED and and the supplied Toon "led sensor" + cable it came with .. hmmm and it still stays green .. thats wierd ..

I will take out the multimeter and test if the connections are 1:1 in the cable ..


Wierdest part is that when simulating the pushbutton .. it took me 3 or more tries to plugin the wall adapter to the outlet.
but test conditions where/are not ideal at all ..
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

@thehogNL

Thats why i wrote the manual .. few posts back .. it is not difficult or "brainsurgery" ..

but i am starting to 2nd guess what part is broken ..

if its a simple "old style' sensor .. the light should turn of .. and i would start seeing readings .. same goes for the S0

when I leave out the meteradapter (disconnected from 230v) .. plug things back in .. it looks like tis "looping" (green LED's) on meter adapter stay on ..
or the S0 connection goes dead ..

when i manualy short .. when it works .. it reports to the toon just fine ..

only 20 times now it does not work (the short).. and the old style pulse sensor the blue led stays on .. and does also not send any data ..

family and friends also have a toon .. I unfortunatly don't have a spare meter adapter
TheHogNL
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by TheHogNL »

One thing at a time..
With the old sensor. Does that sensor blue led light up when you plug the meteradapter back in to 230v?
That blue led should fade in and fade out. Until the light sensor in the same sensor detects light it will keep doing so.

The light sensor will detect blue light (reflected from the blue sensor due to an old style gas meter or electricity meter). This will tell the meteradapter that an old scool gas/elec meter is installed with a reflective part in the numbers. The greed led on the meteradapter will then turn off telling that detection is done, but the blue led will stay on!

When the light sensor detects red light, it means that it is reading a led from a kWh meter with its own pulse led. This time the blue sensor of the toon will turn of (it does not need to be on because there is no reflection needed). Again the green led of the meteradapter will turn off telling that detection is done.

Then after this detection fase the green led on the meteradapter should blink each time a reflection is detected (with blue led) or a kwh pulse is detected (with the red led on kwh meter).
Member of the Toon Software Collective
vso
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:27 pm

Re: ZonOpToon alternative

Post by vso »

TheHogNL wrote:One thing at a time..
With the old sensor. Does that sensor blue led light up when you plug the meteradapter back in to 230v?
That blue led should fade in and fade out. Until the light sensor in the same sensor detects light it will keep doing so.

The light sensor will detect blue light (reflected from the blue sensor due to an old style gas meter or electricity meter). This will tell the meteradapter that an old scool gas/elec meter is installed with a reflective part in the numbers. The greed led on the meteradapter will then turn off telling that detection is done, but the blue led will stay on!

When the light sensor detects red light, it means that it is reading a led from a kWh meter with its own pulse led. This time the blue sensor of the toon will turn of (it does not need to be on because there is no reflection needed). Again the green led of the meteradapter will turn off telling that detection is done.

Then after this detection fase the green led on the meteradapter should blink each time a reflection is detected (with blue led) or a kwh pulse is detected (with the red led on kwh meter).
thank you for detailing this ..

Since you told me "equal" I expected to see the green LED (meteradapter) to turn of and "blink" .. --> same as button push as the vid.

however every way I currently tried / (long wait / short wait .. having dinner and such in between ..) .. the green LED (meteradapter) will not turn off .. I waited to plug back into 230v 10 sec .. 30sec .. 5 min to 10 min (bathroom break) ..
no dice .. the green LED stays on ..

the cable has no interruptions .. (1:1 of left to right ..) and I am guessing the light sensor is smart enough to "short" .. 2-4 and 1 itself .. (simulair as the drawing only this logic will be in the "sensor" ..

I now reset the meteradapter (13sec hold button) reinstalled/reconnect on Toon..

still no dice.. I am going to replicate this with a breadboard ..
Post Reply

Return to “Toon Hardware”