What modules to use for screens and sun shades?

Post by **MindBender** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:56 pm

Does anybody know what modules, preferebly 2way and with some intelligence, can be used to control screens and sunshades?

I really don't like the ugly button on the current one and I've heard it's far from intelligent.

Post by **Bwired** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:04 pm

All
Yes I hope there will be a better A10 or X10 device in the future.
The device from Marmitek is called SW10 and these device from Xanura is called ZAX. However the device for controlling sunscreens etc. are exactly the same, the ZAX and SW10 are not 2-way devices so there is no status control. There are roomers that Xanura will come with a new sunscreen device which have all the features we need. I'm not aware of any other better sunscreen X10 device, so for now I switch it the old fashion way!
Pieter

Post by **Han** » Tue May 02, 2006 2:37 pm

I have a DIY unit. It has two push buttons. One to open, one for closing the screen. If a button is pressed shortly, the screen will go all the way. If it is pressed longer, the screen will stop once the button is released. The unit reacts to the X10 commands On and Off. It has a programming mode to set the HC/UC and to measure the duration of openening/closing the screen.
The unit does not react to a STATUS Request. Probably the best way to give feedback (not the cheapest) is by measuring light intensity. Light intensity could also be a measure for closing the screen.

Han Alink

Post by **Bwired** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:50 pm

Yes you are right about the working of the SW10 / ZAX!
I have two of those modules, I don't use use them in my system because there is also no status (x10) send over the power-line when somebody operates the switch manually. So if one of my kids is playing with the SW10 sunscreen switch and the sunscreen goes out (3.5 meter) I don't know the status at all. That is a big problem for me because if there is a strong wind there can be a lot of damage[:(]

Post by **Han** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:54 pm

Thats the mean reason for starting the weather sensor X10 devices.
The (planned) wind sensor should directly issue an off comand to the sunscreen.
I'm planning to use ultrasonic devices for the wind sensor.

Han Alink

Post by **Bwired** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:08 pm

Hi Han,
Thats a great combination but keep this mind. I have a complete weather station (Davis Vantage Pro) running. This weather station is completely adapted in to the Bwired Home control system. If you look at http://www.bwired.nl/Devices.asp you will see all the devices combined. It's very easy for me to send a X10 off command to the sunscreen if the wind reaches a defined level. But then I'm sending lots of X10 off commands a day, depending on the wind. I would like to check or see what is the status of the sunscreen before I send an X10 command, much more efficient. With the SW10 or Xanura ZAX this is not possible! I could place a status sensor on the sunscreen...... again another device running!

www.bwired.nl Online Domotica, Home Automation house.

Post by **Han** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:40 pm

As I wrote before, my DIY sunscreen controller is not capable of transmitting its status. But I could modify it to do so. One of the problems is the box. My current unit (see attached picture) does not have that much space to contain a full feature transmitter.
Thinking about this, a few questions came up:
Do the A10 units transmit X10 sigals at the zerocrossings for all 3 phases? So at 0, 60 and 120 degrees?
Do A10 units use the backoff algorithm as suggested by X10? So does an A10 unit retransmit after a random time if a collision occurs?

Should a screencontroller recognise the Status request command, or should it just sent ON or OFF when manually operated.

Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] X10ScrContr.jpg 34.58 KB

Han Alink

Post by **MindBender** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:30 pm

Han, which platform are you using to build your own X10 modules? And what modulator/demodulator ciquitery are you using? I'm thinking about using a PIC processor for that purpose. The protocol isn't rocket science, but it's always easier to have a starting point. Since there's no decent product on the market I've decided to make my own controller.

It will support open and close, but also a 'dim' function to direct it to an absolute position in between, as wel as a status request to request its current position. I need that functionality to get my projection screen in 4:3 and 16:9 mode.

Most tube motors are synchronous motors, so I can just count the sinusses on the mains (X10 clocks) to keep track of the position. A load detector can detect if the motor has shut of at the end of stroke to calibrate the position.

Post by **Han** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:38 pm

I'm using PIC processors. In case of the screencontroller and other receive only devices, I use the 16F630. If I have to sent X10 data I have used the 12F683 (simple 4 button transmitter) or the 18F2455 for my CM11A compatible PC interface (USB) and for some extended code sensor devices.

Han Alink

Post by **MindBender** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:33 am

I've been doing some research myself too and it turns out that MicroChip has dedicated an application note to the application of PIC processors for X10 devices: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/A ... 00236a.pdf

It includes a reference design for an tranceiver, complete with software libraries. There's even an example for a terminal that includes an LC-Display.

Post by **Han** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:35 pm

Yes, I know that design. I did not use it. I not sure if it's just a design or something that also works in real life. If you are going to use it let me know your findings.

Han Alink

Post by **Consultant** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:21 pm

I made an application note to drive Sunblind with two way communication. See the two circuit drawings.

Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Sunblind 230V application.pdf 5.41 KB

Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Sunblind 24V application.pdf 5.94 KB

I have not tested this but I think this works if you control the direction in software. The SAIX has local control to start the motor A01 (input 1 SAIX). You can also control the direction A02(input 2 of the SAIX). If you use a timed function in software the direction can automatically change after running a full stoke.
Application in software:
Stop drive down:
IF (A01=OFF AND A02=OFF AND VAR1=ON) THEN (A02=ON VAR1=OFF)
Stop drive up:
IF (A01=OFF AND A02=ON AND VAR1=ON) THEN (A02=OFF VAR1=OFF)
End stop:
IF (A01=ON AND VAR1=ON) THEN (A01=OFF after 1min, VAR1=OFF after 1min)
Drive sunblinds down:
IF (A01=ON AND A02=ON AND VAR1=OFF) THEN (VAR1=ON)
Drive sunblinds up:
IF (A01=ON AND A02=OFF AND VAR1=OFF) THEN (VAR1=ON)

Here are the connection diagrams for 230Vac and 24Vdc motors.

Good luck!

Tell me your experience.

Post by **MindBender** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:46 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Han
 Yes, I know that design. I did not use it. I not sure if it's just a design or something that also works in real life. If you are going to use it let me know your findings.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm pretty sure it works in real life; MicroChips application notes are usually of a good quality, even though I'm not always charmed by their software constructions. It seems this application note is the basis for many commercial products.

Can you tell me what I need to change in the electronicx to make it work on 240V? As far as I can see I only need to modify the transformerless powersupply.

Post by **MindBender** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:51 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Consultant
 I made an application note to drive Sunblind with two way communication. See the two circuit drawings.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Using a relay for driving the motor and another relay to select the directing would also be my way: It's a clever way to protect the motor from enabling both directions at the same time.

This sollutions still doesn't enable us to select a predefined position or to detect wether the screen has been moved manually... End-of-stroke could be detected by the modules built-in load detector to see if the motor has shut off, but unfortunately that status cannot be requested. I'll just build my own

Post by **Han** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:22 pm

I doubt if the transmit part of the microchip application is working. The receive part works though you have to select the components for the 120kHz filters carefully.
As you can see in the appendix, the design is based on another DIY unit (http://www.abacuselectrics.com/x10.htm). I have build that one, and it is actuall still part of my X10 vertical blind controller.
Indeed, you have to change the power supply. Use 1.2uF (400V) instead of 2.5 uF. If the transmitter is transmitting on the zerocrossings of 3 phases (so at 0, 60 and 120 degr.), you also have to change the timing to work for 50Hz. If it only transmits for 1 phase (the one it is connected to), you don't have to change the timing.

Han Alink