Unforgivable! Plugwise stealing data !!!

Post by **Digit** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:53 pm

All that information makes a lot of $$$...

Post by **TANE** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:03 am

I have v20081029
There is a new beta version online for me..but install process is not running well..need to reinstall it.

I think they can't do anything with all the information..

Post by **Noel** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:07 am

WOW.. Chak is still on OLD software!
That must be a 1st

Post by **TANE** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:12 am

I think the version on the CD V2007001 or so..

Post by **Digit** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:12 am

You're right Enver.
How are you going to improve your software by looking at power usage data? Please, tell me Plugwise, i'm developing software since i was a kid; never had to look at the data itself. I'm in ERP business right now, some users work with milligrams, others 'think' in Tons. Software works the same. Strange, ehh?

They'll have to come with a better (the REAL) reason why they are doing this.

Post by **TANE** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:17 am

There is only one reasons that I can think of.
To show that there costumers are saving energy..and this is hot in Europe..they will get extra money from Brussel.

Post by **Ruud** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:35 am

How do they think to do that?
There is now reference data, which apparatus you are monitoring?
Brand type enz

Ruud

Post by **TANE** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:38 am

you can see what the changes are..in 1 year.
This will not give a clear picture..but still more than nothing.

Post by **Digit** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:44 am

Have a look at he patent documents regarding Plugwise. They give some more insight of what the future can bring us. My earlier remark here about what the future will look like, is slowly becoming reality. Disregarding privacy is just a small step in the process.

Post by **Edwin2008** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:54 am

Oeps, i was thinking about ordering a plugwise set. perhaps i have to reconsider.

Post by **Bwired** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:18 am

All: I received the official explanation from Plugwise.

Hi guys,

Here a respond from Plugwise. First I want to make a very important thing
clear:
Plugwise does NOT steal data. Plugwise does not have access to the data! We have no idea what is happing with your appliances at your home!

Things are not always the way they seem. We understand your suspicions but we would also be very glad, if you check things first before making wrong allegations. I hope I can explain the situation.

What is happening?
First understand that there are two different types of data. They are
actually separated from each other.
First you have personal data (like name and (email)address, as Robert
Hekkers shows with the screen shot in his post above). These information is only be send to the portal when you agree. We use this information by example for update remarks.
The second type of data is log data of the plug. This is where the
discussion is about I think. These data is send separately and anonymous to the portal. There is absolute no relation between the log data and any personal information!

Besides this, the portal is hosted by a third party. We don't have access directly to the portal. This third party is monitored so that the "de Wet Bescherming Persoonsgegevens" never will be violated. Plugwise will only get information from the portal by that third party in line with "de Wet Bescherming Persoonsgegevens". Besides all that, that third party is not allowed to look into the information or do anything else with it.

Why does the software sends anonymous log data to a portal?
First of all, for future development. We are developing a internet site where you can control your own devices, of course secured. When you want this product, we need the data, just as simple as that. Also that will be hosted by a third party, so again, we will not have personal information. In the very future we maybe want to get global world wide information about lets say the average actual consumption of a refrigerator. Only for data mining. It's useful for the whole world to know what the average consumption is of electrical equipment. Also for you guys I think. Don't you want to compare your fridge to a very reliable number, calculated form millions of
fridges over the world?

Again guys, please understand we are a small hard working Dutch company with absolute no wrong intentions! We are trying to sell a reliable product which is working perfect and as cheap as possible, so its reachable for as many people as possible. We surely hope that with our products we can save some energy to protect the environment.

Thanks,
Reinder

@ Digit
Je hebt helemaal gelijk, in de privacy statement staat dat je middels de software toestemming moet geven, pas daarna mogen de gegevens verstrekt worden. Door deze link niet aan te vinken, mogen wij dus de verbruiksgegevens dus niet ontvangen.
Deze ontvangen wij dan ook niet (zelfs niet als deze wel aangevinkt staan, maar dat terzijde) aangezien ze bij die derde partij staan en niet bij ons.
Het gaat dus nu om een heel klein detail, namelijk het woord "verstrekken".
De vink is dus niet om het wel of niet te versturen, maar of wij de gegevens mogen inzien. Als men er geen vink zet, dan zal de derde partij deze gegevens dus niet aan ons door zenden en zal niemand deze gegevens inzien. Daar gaat het toch om, dat de privacy gewaarborgd blijft?

Post by **Bwired** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:02 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bwired
 I have V20080807 and its not in there, so they changed it recently.

Post by **Mdamen** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:48 am

If you ask me there should still be an option to completely disable sending anything at all to third party's.
I don't like the idea, especially when it's a third party hosting the data. Compare it with virus scanners which index a global map of virus spread around the world. There also is an option to disable sending this type of data.

Bottom line is, leave people the choice. Do you want to co-operate with this yes or no. So paranoid people like me and digit can disable the sending of that data [:)]

Btw, very nice and quick reaction from the plugwise side! No hiding about this topic.

--
Maarten Damen

www.maartendamen.com

Post by **Edwin2008** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:45 am

I think openess is a must for damage controll. It would be a pitty if good intentions cause a company to be out of business.
For the rest i agree with Maarten, give the users a choice and stick to that. Make an option in the main program so the are able to change there choice later on if they want (and do not disable the choice by default when upgrading!)

Post by **Lempens** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:08 am

So when you register you send your Name en adres to a server. This server has a Log file wich know's what IP adres sends the Personal information.

Then the statics are send to a server. Also this server know's what IP adres sends this data. When you compare the data you see the same IP adres and you know the name of who is sending the data. (ofcourse this works only with people who have a ADSL or Cable connection, and leave there modem always on, so you don't get a new IP adres.

The reason of the fridge is a good one. But i think you need to have a option send or don't send.