Plugwise gets NO PERSONAL DATA!! it is safe to use

Post by **Reinder** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:12 am

For helping the discussions on the right perspective and helping this forum with the facts this post about sending data and Plugwise:
For Plugwise it is NOT possible to trace personal data! No one is aware of that, only when you explicitly give permission of sending you personal data. Standard your PERSONAL DATA IS NOT SEND! The data Plugwise gets is anonymous, NOT PERSONALISED! When and why your devices are on or off at your environment is not noticed by Plugwise.
How much a refrigerator is consuming electricity is noticed but NOT FROM WHO OR WHERE! Millions of data makes it possible to count the average electricity consumption of a refrigerator, not individual cases. With these numbers Plugwise can calculate the average consumption of, by example, a refrigerator, so you can compare it with you own (benchmarking).

So bottom line:
The data Plugwise gets is anonymous, PERSONAL DATA IS NOT SEND!

Post by **Unit106** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:15 pm

Data mining is only useful when there are variables to compare with. So I don't believe that the data is stored without for example details of the location in the world where the data is saved from. What is stored? I assume at least a country code else the outcome of the analyses are pretty useless. You can't compare your refrigerator from Europe with a refrigerator from the USA or Russia. Total different world's.

And because the data is send through the internet everything can be traced back to a single computer based on the unique IP-address. Anonymous data? Not by sending the data over the internet ...

Sander Gardenier

CERTIFIED BUSINESS INTELLIGENCE PROFESSIONAL

<font color="blue"><i>Stap 1: een Powermax Pro installatie ...</i></font id="blue">

Post by **Alexander** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:50 pm

Reinder,

Whatever you would say, the finding was from an user not before we purchased it. Personally i don't give a damn about the usage that will be send to plugwise servers. But i won't open the traffic because a company says I need to open it. I only would open traffic if it's usefull for ME.
Personally i have alot of problems with the fact that Plugwise has changed its policy to not give updates when we don't open the traffic. You doesn't do business like that. The mayority of the users of plugwise don't have any knowledge or problem with opening the traffic. Most users don't have a bi-directional firewall installed. Why would you have any problem with a few users who aint happy with the traffic, if the percentage is properly less than 1% (i would guess Plugwise will be a successfull business). But than again, why would Plugwise has a problem with interacting with domotica systems. Puzzle is complete now we know the software of plugwise send the information to Plugwise. If we would have a plugin for HomeSeer that doesn't need the software, the information that is usefull for Plugwise isn't send. But why would you have problems with that if it is a small portion of the userbase. I've always learned that the customers are the first priority to do good business.

Post by **Verkenner** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:47 pm

Plugwise is a nice company. Plugwise has nice products.
Hope they will develop a range of new products. So far so good.

But I DO NOT like Plugwise is grabbing data from my system !
NOT anonymous, NOT personalized.

@Reinder: I do like to know how to stop sending data to Plugwise.

Thanks, Verkenner

Post by **Digit** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:50 pm

As a follow-up to Unit106's post: The CBP regards an IP address as personal data, "persoonsgegevens". So how can you send non-personal data over Internet?

@Verkenner: Block HTTP traffic (port 80) to 194.50.163.148

@Reinder: you start repeating yourself. You are missing the point(s) made and you are not answering on those.

Post by **Noel** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:10 pm

Digit.
Not sure, but when I was still using the plugs I did see IP: 94.75.242.26 also (Picasse.com)

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Post by **Digit** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:23 pm

Checked with nslookup before i posted:
portal.plugwise.com is still the mentioned IP.
And i see no traffic to 94.75.242.26

Post by **Reinder** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:48 pm

Plugwise is working on a checkbox, so you can stop sending the data.

Post by **LostDreamer** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:11 pm

Just noticed these topics about the plugwise sending data, immediately installed a firewall specially for this.

Something worth noting I didnt see anyone say yet:
There is a VERY BIG differents between the following to facts by Reinder:
1) Standard your PERSONAL DATA IS NOT SEND!
2) The data Plugwise gets is anonymous, NOT PERSONALISED!

Personal data IS being send:
- at registration you get my IP as well as my name and address
- with intervals, the same IP (my server) will sent updates about the power usage.

the 3rd party (and anyone in between my server and the 3rd party server) can look up this info and connect my usage and my address data.

That Plugwise doesnt GET the data from the 3rd party is something totaly different.
My data is being sent AND recorded....... just not by plugwise.

A few years ago I worked for an engineering company that installed Crestron devices for rich people in the Netherlands.
We had a complete database on our server with detailed logs sent by those crestron devices (just for debugging purposes ofcourse: if anything didnt work as expected at a customer, we could check their daily logs on our server).

1 day we had a break in in our office, bunch of laptops and such where stolen.
Within 2 weeks, 2 of our customers where broken into with the info the thieves got from those laptops.

I do believe data mining can be very handy if used wisely by the correct people.
But put that same data in the wrong hands and you've got yourself quite a big problem.

I have absolutely no problem with plugwise knowing a bit about my power consumption, but I know from first hand how easy it is to get your hands on any private data you want and this should be considered by any company using there products to 'spy' on people.

Post by **Alexander** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:51 pm

Reinder, kap nou eens een keer met een topic weer active te maken, zonder iets toe te voegen. We weten dat je niet namens Plugwise op dit forum actief bent. grrr

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:33 pm

mgizmo: euh, reinder zijn laatste post is van de 16e.. (van maart) ik zie het probleem niet?

buitendat, ik zie dit forum nu meer in een vlammen zee worden dan daadwerkelijk iets toevoegen aan hetgeen wat we al weten.. maar ja.. laat maar

(

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Digit** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:42 pm

Reinder probeert zo bepaalde onaantrekkelijke topics uit beeld te laten verdwijnen. Terecht dat mgizmo daar over klaagt, het geeft een verkeerd beeld van wat hot is en wat not.

Post by **Noel** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:42 pm

Hij had een edit gedaan van een post die nu opeens weg is.

Ik weet niet meer welke post het was.

Ff googlen op "www.domoticaforum.eu/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2381" en je ziet misschien wat er opeens weg is.
Kies dan wel Google's "Cached" page.

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Post by **jcasteel** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:47 pm

Hmmm

I am afraid that LostDreamer made a very sensitive point.
Based on the information that get send to plugwise, it is very easy to deduct your lifestyle and to determine when you are normally working, home, etc....

I can see it even in my own usage profile

Over the fact that I have 21 fridges and 69 TV's I am not that concerned that plugwise receives the information but about my safety I am concerned.

Damn .....

Post by **Verkenner** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:41 pm

Reinder STOP.