Plugwise gets NO PERSONAL DATA!! it is safe to use

Post by **Snelvuur** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:44 pm

hehe if you read it he says "there is absolute now harm involved with plugwise"

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Jeroen Bartels** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:45 pm

Pieter, can you lock this topic?

Post by **Bastiaan** » Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Reinder, tells the truth? It might be unwanted typo but still...

funny mistake.

Post by **Reinder** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:02 pm

Please see this objective artikel in the Dutch newspaper, the Parool:

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/1024/GRO ... nten.dhtml

AMSTERDAM - Plugwise, de fabrikant van stroombesparende stekkers, verstuurt geanonimiseerde gegevens over het stroomverbruik van zijn klanten via internet naar zijn centrale computers.

Onder druk van klagende consumenten heeft het bedrijf uit Sassenheim besloten dat de gebruikers het verzenden van data kunnen blokkeren. Maar wie dat doet, verliest het recht op software-updates voor het systeem.

Het bedrijf verkoopt stekkers die via een draadloze verbinding het verbruik van het aangesloten apparaat, bijvoorbeeld een printer of koffiezetmachine, meten. Een regelapparaat van Plugwise zet apparaten die staan te niksen van afstand uit of op een laag pitje, wat veel stroom kan besparen.

Het systeem houdt het verbruik van elk apparaat bij en seint dit door naar de leverancier van de stekkers. Plugwise benut de verbruiksgegevens van zijn klanten om het aan- en uitzetten van stroomslurpers te optimaliseren, zegt manager Reinder Sanders.

''De data worden volstrekt anoniem opgeslagen op onze servers. Wij koppelen ze niet aan de naam van de klant of aan het internetadres van hun computer.''

Plugwise wil niets weten van zijn klanten, maar alles van het stroomverbruik van de aangesloten apparaten, zegt Sanders. ''Wij gebruiken de cijfers om onze dienstverlening te verbeteren. Klanten die liever geen gegevens afstaan, krijgen in een volgende versie van de software de mogelijkheid dit uit te zetten.'' (MARC LAAN)

Post by **Verkenner** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:33 pm

Zie de reactie onder het artikel:

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/1024/GRO ... nten.dhtml

Verkenner

Post by **Digit** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:44 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Reinder
 Please see this objective artikel in the Dutch newspaper, the Parool:
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Objective, of course! It would be very bad if newspapers would write articles that are lacking a neutral point of view. People should be able to make up their own minds. But, this article was not placed in the paper because it's objective, but because of it's informational value; apparently this newspaper found the new information about the sneaky uploading of power usage data of the Plugwise customers important enough to spend another article on Plugwise (from where you are).

Yes, the Parool is objective... but apparently they weren't informed about this in their contacts with Plugwise for the first article that appeared in their paper in April... so this article could also be seen as a rectification to improve their objectivity.

So actually i don't understand why any Plugwise user should read this.

Post by **SNG** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:11 pm

I do totally agree with Unit106 and many users on this forum that data collecting without knowing the location is totally useless. A fridge in Siberia gets quicker colder with less power usage then a fridge in Brasil. I do live in the tropics and with a average temperature of 32 degrees celsius year around, my air conditioners are working overtime. My electricity consumption is then also much higher then someone from Amsterdam or Oslo. So how can I then compare my benchmark with someone from Oslo or Toronto who hardly use a air condition at all...???? You need at least a geographical position to compare your power consumption with as benchmarking... basic statics what you learn on the primary school!!!

Get more and more a BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU feeling of Plugwise. Lot of lies and before you know, all your information is commercially sold and published on the internet as a report. Why has someone to know when I do use my aircon or my computer... to trace me when I am at home???? To find a personal pattern in my lifestyle???

I don't know or some users have it realized but PLUGWISE is doing business against the law... not only the Dutch and European laws but also several international laws... include the UN Human Rights...

Fact #1 - All data is collected through the internet and that means, the collector knows where the data is coming from... and also the country, city and street. Give your IP address to a standard hacker and they know within minutes where you live.... Each message, even when it is one stupid bit, the receiver will know the IP address of the sender. That is required by the internet procotol to make any connection or communication. Plugwise is simple telling lies to us about they don't collect our personal data!!! Collecting data from computers without prior knowledge of the owner is considered by the law an illegal activity!!! This activity is also known as hacking someone else computer....

Fact #2 - That I own a fridge or a computer is by law considered a PERSONAL DATA!!! How many power it is using is considered as PERSONAL DATA!!! When I turn each night my television on to watch the News, is a pattern in my lifestyle and considered by law as PERSONAL DATA!!! Collecting someones PERSONAL DATA without prior permission is against many international laws and agreements...

Fact #3 - Each product that is commercially sold within Europe has standard a warranty for 2 years. That is regulated in the law without any restrictions from the manufacturer. PLUGWISE only supplies warranty and updates when the devices are sending data to their servers. That is absolute ILLEGAL and against European laws and agreements!!! You as a consumer have all times the RIGHT on warranty and updates...

Fact #4 - PLUGWISE does reserve the right to send any userdata commercially to any third party. Risk is that your PERSONAL DATA can be published on any website as a kind of research report is possible and realistic. Also this is again against the law. International laws and the human rights forbid that any PERSONAL DATA can be commercial sold to a third party without prior written permission of anyone who is involved.

Post by **Post-IT** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:54 pm

Did anyone try to see what data is sent exactly?

I don't own a PW set, but I would like to see a tcpdump file containing the data sent by the product. It seems everybody is discussing this in detail, but without trying to get the details on the table.

Post by **Digit** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:19 am

I have some News for you, cause i saw see what data was sent with my own eyes and i saved it:

http://www.hekkers.net/files/PlugwiseDataSessions.zip

In the zip you can find a text file containing a part of the 'conversation' the Source had with the plugwise portal. I used Wireshark to produce this file and only added some CR+LF's to make it more human readable.

Post by **SNG** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:59 am

Is it possible to intercept the signals and replace it with something else... maybe some very xxx related stuff?
If we all daily upload some files of 500MB, their servers will be clocked up soon

And the biggest question of all is... who is the third party who is collecting all the personal data of the users? Why we as endusers don't know who is collecting our data?????????????

Post by **Post-IT** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:28 pm

Indeed this is too much info. Maybe it's possible to route it over a reverse proxy, and at least anonymize the hardware ID's and names.

Have you captured traffic when upgrading the modules?

Post by **Hetwieg** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:20 pm

Wow is there something Wat they don't send to his server [:(!]

Post by **Noel** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:41 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Hetwieg
 Wow is there something Wat they don't send to his server [:(!]

Post by **Digit** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:59 am

@Post-IT:
No, I'm still running the original version from november 2008 and i never upgraded: reading to much about bugs in newer releases. Waiting patiently for a stable release... maybe I'll never update.