Experience with automatic radiator valves?

Post by **MindBender** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:03 am

Since I'm overhauling my central heating system, I also have a good excuse to buy a couple of those nice electronic radiator valves, in the hope I can control them. Does anybody have any experience with them and with hooking them up to a home automation system?

I'm currently considering the Honeywell HR40 and HR80. The 80 has a wireless receiver (and transmitter?) in it, but it only seems to be able to communicate with a Honeywell zone control system, which doesn't seem to be compatible with OpenTherm boilers. Besides that it only has two zones, while I want a zone for every room. The HR40 has a RJ-11 connector for an external sensor/dial, but I'm afraid those are just analog inputs, while I want to change the set point and read the current temperature.

Then there's the Danfoss RA Plus. Unfortunately there's not much inf oration available on that system, not to mention that they're butt-ugly.

Remeha also has a system with wireless controllable valves but they don't have any information on this on their site whatsoever.

And then there's the system of our good (yet expensive) friend Klaus Conrad. But that system doesn't have 'quality' written all over it.

What I want is simple: I want to be able to control the temperatures in my rooms separately. And I don't want to change the setting of my living room thermostat every time I want heat in another room. Any ideas?

Post by **kockie** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:18 pm

I have been thinking about that too. But i still have much to think about

I'd like to control my upstairs radiators with an electric valve like this: http://www.heimeier.com/nl/index.asp?ar ... &g5=0&g6=0

The solution i am thinking about is a central microprocessor with 1-wire thermometers in every room. THe microprocessor will be acting as a thermostat. I just havent figured out how to wire this to the boiler, but i am working on it. I will watch this topic closely.

Post by **MindBender** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:39 pm

Nice actuator! But remember that measuring a room's temperature is more than just mounting a sensor. A good room thermostat measures the radiating heat from the wall separately and takes this into account too.

Controlling a room's temperature is even more complicated: You'll need a PID controller with feed-forward to do it right. Such a controller isn't difficult to implement in software, but finding the right P, I, D and FF factors takes a lot of experimenting.

Personally I'm thinking about using Honeywell HR40 knobs; They have a connection for an external temperature dial. Perhaps I can control it from there using a microprocessor. All it takes is buying one and see what I can do with it.

I'm also considering the HR80 knobs. They're twice as expensive but they have a (two-way?) radio on board. I'm hoping to reverse-engineer their protocol and set/read them using my own system

Post by **Henk** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:00 pm

more info on Hometronics see - check local Honeywell sites for English http://www.totalhomesolutions.nl/pages/ ... rming.html

Check also www.waakzaamwonen.nl for additional retail info..... and see what kind of configuration you need for heating control .....

Be aware you will get a second home controller - likely overlapping functionality with your current X10 controller. Communication between the two systems is possible by exchange of X10 status. Hometronics support X10 ... Setpoint management is only possible on Hometronics display panel or on television with a remote control (requires the right modules) The strength of hometronics is on alarming and heating control .... controlling lights is possible with X10 (I think only one house code) . It has some nice features like lifestyle mode Contact me for more info on this equipment I got some hands-on experiences.

Post by **MindBender** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:37 pm

It seems like the Honeywell HR80 knobs use bi-directional datacommunication: The specification states they can receive setpoints transmitted to them by the CM67z controller. They can also transmit heat requests to the relay box. I doubt if they also transmit their room's temperature, but that's no real requirement for me.

Now I need to get ahold of the protocol. It uses RF communication at 868.1 MHz, probably FSK. I can reverse-engineer it, but a good hint can save me a lot of time...

Post by **Willem4ever** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:35 pm

MIndBender any progress? My wife noticed the growing number of devices, and asked when i plan to start the work on the heating system.

Post by **johnathan** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:55 am

Hi Mindbender,
I have a Comfort Home Automation controller (http://www.comfort.org.uk/) with which I'd like to control some radiator valves..
I've been thinking along the same lines regarding interfacing to HR80's with some DIY hardware.

Any luck reverse engineering the HR80 protocol?

Johnathan

Post by **davidj** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:35 pm

I've also been looking at this. It looks like the protocol is 802.15.4, aka ZigBee.
Has anyone had any luck talking to a HR80 directly?

Post by **slimyosra** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:10 pm

Hi there,
Does any managed to communicate with the cm67z or hr80 .
Regards
Slim

Post by **MindBender** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:29 pm

No, but neither did I try yet; Too many things to do, I'm sorry. It's still on my list though. Unfortunately 868MHz modules are a bit difficult to get and the guy on eBay who sold HR80 valves at ~65 Euros is no longer advertising.

Post by **Alexander** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:57 pm

I'm interested to.
Found this one http://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co.uk/ ... p-218.html = 81 euro.

With Conrad you mean article 560607 - 89 ? Would it be such a different if the valve only has to shut or open. Or do you think that the communication part will be the quality problem?

Post by **MindBender** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:00 pm

Yes, those are the ones I had in mind. The protocol will probably work pretty well and I'm sure it will be a lot easier to reverse-engineer than the Honeywell protocol. But the valve looks a bit flimsy, not at all like something I would like to put in my living room. Ideally the valva can also be operated locally and the domotica system would be notified about these operations.

Proportional valve control is essential if you're using a boiler that regulates it's water temperature proportionally. You may get away with just open/closed control if you're boiler is controlled by the outside temperature instead of room temperature, but don't expect a good accuracy there.

Post by **Alexander** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:45 pm

This is, i think, simular as the conrad version, but in white (and label)

http://www.inkoopacties.net/ia/0q880yyh/1/6jhm171b

If i buy one, can samebody try to decode this. It looks like nobody is more active with this. Now winter is comming, this would be great if it works.

Post by **slimyosra** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:55 pm

Hi all,
for sale a HR80:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Honeywell-HR80UK-HR8 ... 286.c0.m14

Post by **MindBender** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:26 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mgizmo
 If i buy one, can somebody try to decode this. It looks like nobody is more active with this. Now winter is comming, this would be great if it works.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I guess we're all still interested, but we're all very busy on other project.

I have tried to get 868MHz RF modules, but they are hard to obtain, relatively expensive and there are many different incompatible varieties. This makes it rather hard to get an appropriate one.