help with DAIX12 and transformer noise problem

Post by **binkiem** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:42 pm

I bought a new kitchen lamp. Inside the lamp there are two transformers installed to feed a few (2*4 ) lamps (the transformers can be switched separately or together). The type of the transformer is:
KRS TISG 105.235/12 - 235V/12V 105VA

When a try the switch the lamp with the DAIX12 a got a lot of noise. Because this it isn't good i installed for the time being a SAIX12, so i can use the lamp. But finally i would like to use the DAIX12 again.

In the documentation of the lamp i see that it is a trailing edge transformer. In the documentation of the SAIX12 is see the following sentences:

"The dimming actuator may not be connected to trailing edge electronic transformers .
If such a transformer is connected then this will cause a buzzing noise and may
damage the dimming actuator. This also renders the warranty null and void."

So i think i is the transformer. Will this be correct?

If so what transformer would i use, so i can use the DAIX12 again.

Thanks for helping.

Post by **MindBender** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:08 am

You have given the answer yourself: If your lamp uses a trailing edge transformer and the SAIX12 cannot handle those, you should replace the transformer by something else. The symptom is just as the SAIX12 document states: a buzzing noise. Since connecting one renders warrenty void, I supposed something may get damaged so I would experiment with it too much anymore.

Personally I strongly prefer old-fashioned linear (copper) transformers. The cheaper ones may still buzz a bit, but that's purely mechanical and annoying at most and not hardful to your dimmer.

Post by **wimmer** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:19 pm

You have not a copper transformer but a switching power supply witch is switching on the trailing edge of the sinus from 230V AC power line. The DAIX12 is switching on the leading edge op the sinus. So it is only working when the DAIX12 is fully on, otherwise they miss each other 100 times in a second (50Hz).

When it is good, try to make it better, use it only when it is best!!

Post by **binkiem** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:47 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MindBender
 Personally I strongly prefer old-fashioned linear (copper) transformers. The cheaper ones may still buzz a bit, but that's purely mechanical and annoying at most and not hardful to your dimmer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Fine to know that this if for sure the problem.
Can someone give some suggestion about some good copper transformers or at least some good brand of transformers so i can look further. And it will be nice if someone has good experience with it.

Post by **wimmer** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:04 am

Try to use a normal copper transformer, look of you can use a dimmer for it. You can buy it at nearest building market (bouwmarkt).
It must have 12 Volt an at least 105 Volt Ampere or Watt. Good luck.

When it is good, try to make it better, use it only when it is best!!

Post by **binkiem** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:15 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wimmer
 Try to use a normal copper transformer, look of you can use a dimmer for it. You can buy it at nearest building market (bouwmarkt).
It must have 12 Volt an at least 105 Volt Ampere or Watt. Good luck.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I now know the sizes of the 105 VA copper transformer. They are VERY big, so i cannot use them. I had some talk with Eaton. They advised me a OSRAM Halotronic HTM 105 (also called mouses). But also this trafo make noise. Some other person have experience with OSRAM trafo's or has another suggestion (except buying onather lamp)?
thanx for your help
p.s. my wife doesn't like the timeframe when it is fixed, so there is more presure know [:I]

Post by **Pieterpaul** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:04 pm

I also had an electronic transformer that made a lot of noise after I installed a DAIX10. In the beginnig I thought it was just a nuisance, but I noticed that I stopped using the light, or used it only with very little lighting (i.e. with lots of dimming). After reading this thread I knew it was also bad for the dimmer so I went and looked for other transformers, but the only one that I found that could fit inside the housing of the light was the OSRAM halotronic Mouse you were referred to. The device says that it works with both leading and trailing edge dimmers, so I bought it. It works like a charm in combination with the DAIX and doesn't buzz at all, even at maximum lights. We have used the light more in the past few weeks than in the half year before, so I am quite happy with it

You can get the OSRAM mouse at a GAMMA in NL, don't remember the price.

It's a shame that the DAIX modules don't work with the (apparently more common) trailing edge devices, and I find it rather disturbing that this is not clearly advertised (in the shops they say only that it works with electronic transformers) and I hadn't noticed the remark in the manual.

BTW: I also thought about using a KAKU dimmer with built in transformer (it is roughly of the same size), but since I have no other KAKU devices I decided against it.

Regards, PP

Post by **binkiem** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:02 pm

PP, do the transformers make no noise? Also when your ear is near about 20 cm? In the lamp i use two versions. one is 70VA and the other is 150VA. The 150VA makes more noise. At maximum there is now noise. I tried both with a DAIX12 and a DAIX10 but i see (hear) no difference. I now placed some isolation material to lower the noise.

p.s. didn't know the Gamma sold this transformers

Post by **Pieterpaul** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:51 pm

At least none that I can hear. But the housing of the trafo is up against the ceiling, so I don't normally put my ear against it

In any case, for me the difference is more than good enough, so I can only recommend it.

Using isolation does not seem such a good idea to me, not only because (according to the quote you found in the manual) the dimmer may be damaged by the transformer but also because of overheating issues.

/PP

Post by **binkiem** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:22 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pieterpaul
 Using isolation does not seem such a good idea to me, not only because (according to the quote you found in the manual) the dimmer may be damaged by the transformer but also because of overheating issues.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It is not completly isolated. Only the parts that have contact with the metal frame.