New house, time to design the HA

Show or discuss your existing Home automation project here, so a detailed explanation!.....
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nefreyu
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New house, time to design the HA

Post by nefreyu »

Hi,

First of all, this is a great forum! Loads of useful stuff. After years of doing some semi-domotica implementations in previous houses (mostly with x10) I want to really start in our new (yet to be completed) house and so far I've found numerous interesting and useful tips here.

We *) are in the planning phase, but since it will be completed soon, (it's a project building so after 'completion' we get to finish it with a kitchen a bath a floor and loads of other stuff) we need to finalize the requirements off stuff that might require access to the walls/floor etc.

*) we: My wife is an active participant in this project, she is an IT consultant :P, yes I count myself lucky!

As a load of experienced people are roaming this forum I'm hoping to get some expert advice during this planning phase (and during implementation I hope to share my experiences and draw on yours again)

<b>So first I'll put down some info on the house</b>
<ul>
<li>Some general info: http://www.galjoenzuid.nl/woningtypes/beyerinck.php</li>
<li>And not so detailed drawings: http://www.galjoenzuid.nl/pdf/beyerinck.pdf</li>
<li>Downstairs the walls are made up from 7cm thick 'gibo' (gypsum concrete??) blocks, so relatively easy to add new cable pipes if needed, also the floor is still without it's top layer, so it's easy to still add pipes there as well.</li>
<li>Upstairs is a wooden frame work with 'gypsum??' plates against it. I think less easy to add stuff there, creating holes is easy but fixing them, not so much</li>
</ul>

<b>Our goals</b>
<ul>
<li>Automate as much lights as possible (closets, toilets, hallways, stairways etc, all areas that you pass through, easy detectable</li>
<li>Automate groups of lights for different scenarios, dim/on/off etc.</li>
<li>Security mode, when set as such, all lights should be triggered when motion is detected (or doors are opened) where they should not have been.</li>
<li>Sound in kitchen, bathroom, bedrooms, controllable to use as a alarm clock, as radio and as announcement system</li>
<li>If feasible, 'smart' microphones in rooms that can pickup voice commands, filtering out background noise some how</li>
<li>Extensible system, should be able to add window shades, sunscreens irrigation systems etc, later in the project</li>
<li>Controllable via web (for pda's & touchscreens in the house or when away)</li>
<li>Cost & usage monitoring and control for electricity, gas and water</li>
<li>Home theater control (possibly only loosely connected to the HA)</li>
</ul>

Well, that is is for now, the idea is that this is going to expand when successful, the only thing that we really need to make sure of is what we should do now, while we can still can access the walls and stuff.

I am a software engineer, I have considerable experience in most languages that are used with HA. Ruby and C# are my languages of choice however also java/perl/php/vb(+script)/and loads of other are no issue, minor things in C I can also to but that is about the limit, no driver coding etc.

Also I know my way around with electrical systems, I'm no expert, but the x10 connecting x10 in wall switches and stuff is no issue at all.

(one big question on that one by the way, in almost no home I found the required 'Line voltage' in switches, just the black cables 'neutral' and 'switched neutral' so how to connect the common x10/z-wave switch without having to rewire my whole house with extra 'line voltage' wires to the switches?)


I have some old x10 stuff and a cm11, I also just got a similar set for Z-Wave from ACT (all their European ready stuff times 1, so an in wall appliance switch (2 peddle), an in wall dimmer switch (2 peddle), a remote, a computer module (rs232) some plug in socket modules and a PIR). So far I really like the z-wave stuff, the communication seems much more robust as the x10 modules, they even give feedback and are easy poll-able for status. BIG disadvantage, no opensource drivers/protocol descriptions so stuck with homeseer or linuxmce, or similar solution.

For now I am experimenting with homeseer and its scripting environment which seems powerful enough for me to 'do what ever the frak I can think of' [:D]

Reading this forum I see only few z-wave users, so I'm wondering what your experiences are and how you got around the x10 issues (if any?) My problem was mainly that with x10 the computer would never know the status of the connected devices, or at least not with any relative measure of correctness.

So Z-wave, x10, other methods? what needs to be done now? (like adding a voltage line to switch sockets?) add extra cables to certain locations? Suggestions for other stuff to automate in the house? Suggestions for (phased) approaches? Any indications on budget sizes?


Any help/insight is much appreciated, I hope to be able to return the favors.


Andre (and Nicole)
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Snelvuur
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New house, time to design the HA

Post by Snelvuur »

i think the number of posts also indicate, that you could have looked a bit further on the forum. There are discussion about comparing regular x10 with xanura, what you need for that (normally a blue wire as well)

The problem with most people (including you) is that they want to start with home automation and want it all in the beginning (which i can totally undersntad, i had the same post i think :) but you have to start off with the beginning, first try and get some electronics to be switchable using for instance x10. These days plugwise is also an option since it uses a mesh wireless network which is also nice. Only downside is that you dont have a switchable button in place then.

Ofcourse get a rfxcom, any "more detailed" home automater has one, so you can start using harrison curtains or a doorbell, or measure temperature with oregon. For heating, i would just go with a simple honeywell to start off with and use the variable "input" on the back side with a x10 connector. It doesn't do much but it will go to the set temperature you want if switched on, and falls back to normal business if turned off. (anything better is $$$$)

Use homeseer to get everything you want it to do, then experiment with other software like housebot, or xpl-perl, or domotiga.nl , if you want you can write your own software, but most people allready did that so you can better help improve one i would say. (unless your not happy about there handling, and create your own)

security you can use visioninc (with a receiver end of rfxcom) (search forum)

for sounds, i was myself thinking about getting a ESS http://hacs.com/essall.php but it seems there having issues with money, or vendors, so i dont know if that will continue, combine that with a receiver with ethernet (which you can manipulate via http gets) you have your sound system..

anyway, look around on the forum more, its a bit of a maze i can tell you that but thats the problem, there is too much information.. i once tried to make a sort off http://wiki.binkey.nl (wiki) but its a lot of work and i cant update it all the time since my views change frequently too.

// Erik (binkey.nl)
nefreyu
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New house, time to design the HA

Post by nefreyu »

Hi snelvuur,
Like said i've been working with ha in various forms in the past years however since we are now in a unique position to do stuff that might be impossible after the house is done I'd like to make sure that at least those things are thought out :)

Thanks for your input, it steers me towards using multiple technologies together, instead of trying to do it all with one. (which is my usual pitfall)

I'll use the names you mentioned for some keyword searches on the forum.

Any tips on structural stuff (wires to and from whatever locations for whatever future use?) are still very welcome.
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Snelvuur
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New house, time to design the HA

Post by Snelvuur »

infrared to all rooms, speaker cables to all rooms, 2x utp to all rooms, perhaps camera cables to each room. Dont forget you can just use 1x utp for network and use the other one then for other stuff aswell (since you dont need to use it exclusive for utp)

run everything to a central location, and if its in the meter closet, beware that you dont stuff too much in it, since heat consumption could be very great then. And if you got money to burn, get some extra empty tubes to your central place just to be sure.

Dont forget if you want electric curtains to get power supply's near the top of your curtain..

and if you want to have like a touchscreen somewhere, make sure you got that covered too..

and this is only handy if you intend to change a lot. For instance if you have the livingroom and its big, picture that your wife/gf wants to have the complete stereo/tv set on the other side of the living room, then you dont have all kinds of tubes. So just make a couple of extra tubes from 1 end of the living room to the other one. You can use those tubes to setup your surround sound system without visible cables, and if you want to change location of the t.v. you can do it visa versa.

these are just the things i thought off with my new house.. although i'am really scared that they are going to screw it up. New houses, you get the threatment of a dog.. dont know why..

// Erik (binkey.nl)
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