Alternatives for the CM11 interface?

Post by **MindBender** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:46 pm

Does anybody know a good alternative for the CM11 computer interface module?

Besides the utterly worthless software that's supplied with it, Active Home, a Win16 application for crying out loud, is it's response to X10 events very slow: It can take up to 2 seconds before the status of a node is being updated after its state has changed. That's way to slow to move my camera's into the right direction.

Post by **Niknik** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:41 pm

The CM11 is just the interface. I think the delay is due to the poor coding and not the actual hardware. Have you tried different software and see if it worked better?

Post by **Han** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:23 am

If the controlling program is sending a command to the CM11A (or any other computer interface), the CM11A will try to send the X10 data. For "normal" ON or OFF commands, this will take less than a second, but for DIM/BRIGHT commands this can take up to 4 seconds. If a collision occurs, this can double or even triple the time required to send the X10 data. Once the data has been send, the CM11A sends an acknowledge to the controlling program. That is the moment the software can set the status of the light (or unit) to ON, OFF.... 
So: do not blame the software! It is inherrent to the X10 way of transmitting. Software that does not wait for an acknowledge from the computer interface to change the status of a device is doing it in the wrong way.

Han Alink

Post by **Bwired** » Sat May 13, 2006 11:52 pm

Hi,
I agree with Han, howeever there will some better controllers then the CM11a, but it will probably give you very little performance win. I still use at the moment the CM11a, I think it's not the best hardware, getting warm and had already two in defect over the years. I'm now writing a driver for my new controller the Xanura CTX35 http://www.bwired.nl/images/how/CTX35.pdf, if I'm ready I can hopefully tell you the difference. Btw if somebody has already a good driver for the CTX35 please help me out! So little time....so much to do [^]
Regards
Pieter Knuvers

Post by **Han** » Sun May 14, 2006 3:21 pm

While testing my own CM11 compatible interface, I detected a bug in the controlling program (http://www.zeushome.com/). The program used a time out of about 3.5 seconds (maximum time waiting for the CM11A acknowledge). This value was based on a 60Hz net frequency. In Europe this time out was not long enough for a maximum Bright or Dim command, as these commands take 20% more time to complete. Also in the Mister House software the same problem appeared. The bugs are fixed now.
Other computer interfaces will show the same performance. Using extended commands for Dim/Bright will give a big performance boost (0.6 seconds for all Dim/bright commands). Also the "old" direct Dim commands will give a much better performance. The CM11A is supporting extended code 1 commands. Problem is that there are only a few X10 units around and hardly any controlling software.

Han Alink

Post by **MindBender** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:29 pm

Thanks Han! While digging into the X10 protocol I've discovered it's a very slow protocol. So I agree that's one factor in the delay.

Clever coding can 'prevent' collisions by reading back while writing: If your node reads a '1' (signal present), while it was transmitting a '0' (no signal) another node is transmitting too and your node should abort. If all nodes do this, no collisions would occur. However, a side effect is that messages with the most 1's in it will have the highest priority.

Anyway, the CM11 polls the PC to tell it there's a new message in its buffer. The polling frequency is 1 second, so after reception it will take somewhere between 0 and 1 second before the PC receives this message. I'd like to get rid of this extra time. The CTX35 is much better in this respect: It just sends the message to the PC. That shouldn't be a problem with modern PCs. Besides that, it uses human readable messages and a much higher bitrate. Unfortunately it's not very widely supported by software.

Post by **Bwired** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:43 pm

Thats right!
It would be much better if Xanura (Eaton Holec) releases a open driver (open source) which anyone can use to make their own programs. The shareware programs are promoting the product by it self, so its good for the manufacterer. There is a driver for homeseer for the CTX35. The ACT TI103 http://www.bwired.nl/Images/How/ti103_spec.pdf
http://www.bwired.nl/Images/How/ti103_instr.pdf
is equivelant to the CTX35. With a little hack this driver is working for the CTX35 on Homeseer to.

Post by **Han** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:20 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Clever coding can 'prevent' collisions by reading back while writing: If your node reads a '1' (signal present), while it was transmitting a '0' (no signal) another node is transmitting too and your node should abort. If all nodes do this, no collisions would occur. However, a side effect is that messages with the most 1's in it will have the highest priority.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The colision can not be prevented, but you can detect it (and resolve it). X10 (the company) has proposed a "back off" algorithm:

ACCESS PROTOCOL
With Extended Code systems, the amount and nature of the messages that are being used requires that Transmitters avoid message collisions where possible, and that, when a collision does occur, it can be detected and the conflict resolved. In order to do this, the following access protocol should be adopted. All messages are assumed to have equal priority.

When a transmitter has a message it wishes to transmit, it must wait for access to the power line for either 8, 9, or 10 half power line cycles - during which the line must have been continuously clear of data '1' bits. If a '1' bit is detected, it must restart its access timing and wait for another 8, 9, or 10 cycles. After line access has been achieved, the transmitter must check the line during the transmission of a '0' bit (no carrier) to see that no other transmitter is transmitting. If a collision occurs, the transmitter must abort its transmission immediately and again go though the line access procedure. The choice of 8, 9, or 10 half cycles is chosen randomly for each line access attempt.

I have build the protocol in my own (transmitting) units. I'm not sure the CM11A is working according to this protocol. If anybody knows, i would like to here.

Han Alink

Post by **sharirani** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:43 pm

the W800RF32AE receiver http://www.intellihome.be/english/produ ... asp?id=294 offers a good solution in combination with HomeSeer home automation software.
The W800RF32AE receiver works in combination with the CM11 and receives signals from wireless sensors remotes, etc directly into your PC. For this application, the PC should be running the homeseer program at all times and CM11 must be permanently connected.

If you don't want to use the CM11 computer interface anymore, you could opt for the solution Ocelot + XM10 Two-way Interface :
http://www.intellihome.be/english/produ ... asp?id=132
http://www.intellihome.be/english/productview.asp?id=16

More information, see http://www.intellihome.be

Post by **Bwired** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:26 pm

The downside to the WF800RF32AE RF Reciever is that its only working with Homeseer and other standard HA software. You have to use a plugin which is rather robust. I use the WF800RF32AE as well and have written my own piece of software which is embedded in my own Home automation system, http://www.wgldesigns.com should make it open source! I also find the reciever not so sensitive, even with the external antenna I'm not able to receive all the RF signals in my home. I still needs some extra TM13 recievers. The WF800 can receive all housecodes, extended code and all other X10 motion detectors as well (alarm).
In a few weeks I will receive a additional WF800RF http://www.wgldesigns.com/w800.html which will be the American version. All the wireless motionsensors from the United States, costing a lot less then the european ones will be working on this reciever. MS13a motion detector 4 pieces for 20$. In the Netherlands you pay 30 euros for one MS13a motion sensor. I will keep you posted about this little project!

Pieter Knuvers
www.bwired.nl Online House in the netherlands. Domotica, Home Automation.

Post by **DMB** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:52 pm

I am using the Xanura CTX35 (ACT TI103) together with homeseer for a year now without problems. I think the improvement is the buildin buffer. See http://www.act-solutions.com/kingery16.htm

In homeseer I've selected the ACT TI103 plugin.

Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] ctx35 homeseer.gif 16.12 KB

That's not sufficient.
After starting up homeseer there's an error reporting

Download Attachment: [img]images/icon_paperclip.gif[/img] ctx35 homeseer error.gif 7.75 KB

The solution is to put a fake X10 command in the startup.txt from homeseer. My startup scripts look like

sub main
hs.DebugMode = 0 ' log status and value changes
hs.execx10byname "Buiten LampVoordeur", "off", 0, 0
hs.RegisterStatusChangeCB "homeseer_status_change.txt", "notify"
end sub

The fake command hs.execx10byname wakes up the communication with the CTX35.
After that the CTX35 is fully functioning.

DMB

Post by **villo01** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:16 pm

If any of you have the chance to use the new INSTEON technology, is faster than x10, and use PLC and wireless, also support x10, they come with signal booster, www.smarthome.com

Regds

Victor

Post by **Bwired** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:10 pm

TI213 RS232 X10 ASCII Interface.

This X10 contoller is I think equivelant to the CTX15.
Cost is 120 euro's

http://www.elekhomica.nl/product_info.p ... cts_id=588

Regards Pieter

Post by **DMB** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:37 pm

Pieter,

The CTX15 has TTL 5V input and output.
I think it is the CTX35 with RS232 levels of +- 12V.

DMB

Post by **Digit** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:30 am

Being a real newbie in X10, i saw more 'potential' in the serial interfaces like the TIxxx/CTXxx devices than the CM11, so i bought me a TI213 at Elekhomica, the same that Pieter mentioned earlier:

http://www.elekhomica.nl/product_info.p ... cts_id=588

After some problems (wrong manual) it took me just an hour or 2-3 to get the TI213 up and running; all X10 events going over the powerline are now logged to a database since a day or 2.
I think, that whenever flexibility and ease of use are important to you, you should go for a device like this. This is really a great device! Worth every Euro you spend on it.

Just my 0,02.

Regards,
Robert.