Best Camera to catch a Burglar?

Post by **Niknik** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:34 pm

I need your help once again.

I live in a duplex apartment (2 floors, on the top of the building, on the 3rd and 4th floor positions) and we all have a common garage on the basement of the building.
Although I have a "closed" garage, I leave it open most of the time. I get the car out, leave the door open - and only close it at night when I get the car parked in again.

I don't have nothing valuable in there, and we're all "neighbors" so I don't think much about it.

However, a couple months ago, I left a few wine bottles "hidden" next to an empty box, and they were stolen after a few days.

Well... I was annoyed, but I don't like wine that much, so I didn't care much.

But the past days, that burglar attacked again - this time stealing a car shampoo bottle, costing less than 1 euro!
I'm not willing to put up with this anymore, and want to catch this guy in the act.

So, I'm thinking of installing a camera in there.

Technical considerations:

I need to get the video from the basement to the 4th floor - don't know if I can do it via WiFi.
On the plus side, the electric wiring in my garage is connected to my own electric board (each closed garage is wired to the respective apartment) - so I was thinking if I could use a "powerline" ethernet adapter and stream the video through the electric wires.
If so, would that affect my existing X10 communications? They're quite reliable as it is, wouldn't want to mess it up.

What are your thoughts on this? Any suggestions?

(I don't need to tell I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible

Post by **Snelvuur** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:57 pm

just put 220 volts on the door if someone opens it

but you can use ethernet over power, and put up a ethernet camera. Has to work in the dark though, and those are expensive.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Niknik** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:03 pm

Fortunately, the "dark" issue is not a problem - there are a lot of automatic lights with motion sensors, whenever anyone walks or drives around, the lights come up.

Even regular "webcams" these days now have a good "low light quality" - at least when compared to the first ones that required lots of lights. I'll try to do some tests, and see if I can get Wifi Signal from a basement "mini-window" on my garage space to my apartment. That would be the best solution indeed.

What about cheap ethernet/wifi cameras? How much should I expect to spend on it?

Post by **Snelvuur** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:51 pm

i dont think wifi will reach it, unless the garage is out in the open, and has a wooden door. Best deal for a nice ethernet camera would be second hand shops, like ebay. Saves you a lot of money. Then use a power to ethernet circuit for it. At least thats what i would do.

see http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 0200078231

pan tilt zoom infrared and ethernet .. 130 euro's

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Bwired** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:53 pm

Hi
Yes you can use a Homeplug adapter and a network camera and use the existing powerline for it. I have tested this in my house and with my homeplug adapter even X10 stil worked. The Home plug will be a upcoming device for home automation as well because of the "Command & Control" protocol. Soon there will be lots of devices suitable for the Homeplug, It think this can become huge.
Back to the camera

You can also try and put an extra Cable beside the existing wire which you can use for netwerk or video stream with PoE. Don't know you have a problem with this because officially this is not permitted. I would use a good small Dome camera, u need to recognize what on the camera

I Did some experimenting with a wireless camera but a lot of them is crap an you need a very solid signal.
Pieter

Post by **Niknik** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:02 pm

Thanks Erik and Pieter, I'll give those a look. I'll try to find HomePlug adapter (it can be used for many things, even if later choose to use another method) and see if it's enough to stream video back to my apartment.

Running a new wire would be my last option... the "height" of the cable scares me.

Post by **Bwired** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:11 am

Right, what do you mean with the "Height" of the cable scares me?

Post by **Snelvuur** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:21 am

4 floors high i presume

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Niknik** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:44 am

yes, passing a cable for the 4 floors... I guess it could be a simple vertical tube - but it can also have several junction boxes. We never know what electricians do some times to save a few Euros.

Post by **Dowser** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:45 am

I agree that ethernet is probably best to transmit the signal with.
Personaly I use and are fond of Axis network cameras, but they are rather expensive if you can't get them at ebay or something like that. Stay away from the cheap network-cameras that only outputs mpeg4 with a special activeX component.
But if you don't want to spend the money for a network-camera there are several different video-servers to choose from that can have multiple regular cameras connected to them, or even a PC with the right capture-card/usb-dongle connected.

But I think the placement of the cameras is just as important as the technology you choose.
First of all, do you want the camera to deter the burglar from entering or should it be evidence that you can submit to the police?
If it's to deter you should definitely have atleast one camera that is large and clearly visible from far away. In other case you should go for a more covert solution with possibly camouflaged cameras that catches the burglar first when he is in your property.

Regardless of the objective of the cameras you must think of two things, make sure that the images capture the burglar in a way that he can be identified afterwards.
The classic placement, high up in a corner to cover the most area is great if you want to know exactly what he have done, but that will in most cases generate an image of the face thats rather worthless as an ID. Place the camera lower, and with an angle so that you will capture the face from the front. Make a few test-runs with you as the burglar and make sure that your face is visible afterwards. That will make sure that your equipment is ok.

Then you must look in to your local laws.

Here in Sweden you don't need a license to have a video-surveillance system any longer, but you must have signs warning about it, even if it's inside your house. And you must not capture any public areas with good enough quality so that anyone can be identified.
On the other hand, we have a liberal law regarding evidence collecting, even if the method used is illegal, the evidence still stands. But you might very well be fined for the camera at the same time.

Good Luck!

//Markus

Post by **Niknik** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:58 am

Thanks Dowser.

Well, in here I'm not looking to press criminal charges, these are more "annoyances" than real problems. I just want to find who is doing it, and if it's some "friendly" neighbor - to embarass him when we have our next neighbor's meeting.

If in a small society of a few dozen apartments we can't trust anyone concerning such cheap and insignificant things like bottles of wine and car shampoo - it just goes to show how our society is collapsing.

I for once, intend to do something to show that rules/laws/respect are important, and that every action has a consequence.

I'm not really sure about how our laws are concerning this, but as the garage is my property, and I'll only be capturing video from "inside" of it - there should be no problem about it.

Post by **Dowser** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:10 am

I *think* that the law that you are allowed to capture video inside your own property without any other permit than a sign is the same within the whole EU, but I'm not sure, but in your case I can hardly see the petty criminal pressing charges against you...

But if that's your main reason, a cheap solution would be to get one of the many available motion-detection cameras that stores the images on a local memory-card.
Sure, you won't be able to get the pleasure of watching him live, but your wallet will be happy.

//Markus

Post by **Snelvuur** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:15 am

Your allowed to record a camera in your own house. Its your property, otherwise banks / gas station are not allowed either. Bwired has a frontdoor cam, thats borderline, but since its only the back of people and not a full frontal its ok with 99,9% (the 0.1% sends the cops, who then laugh at the 0.1%)

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Niknik** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:25 am

Erik, I think the point that Dowser was making is regarding the:
" but you must have signs warning about it"

Banks, gas stations, etc - all need to have a "sticker" warning that you're being watched and video is being recorded.

But for the task at hand, that shouldn't be a problem anyway.

The cheap solution would be fine, but I'm worried that the guy might steal the camera, trash it, or something else (although I plan to have it as hidden as possible). That's why I'd prefer to have the video streamed to my house and safely recorded far away. Or else, it will be me looking "dumb".

Post by **Niknik** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:03 pm

WHat do you guys think about this linksys wireless camera?
http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellit ... 5686883B01

It's about $120 - is there anything you suggest for around the same price range?

It seems to do a lot of stuff in hardware, and acessible via browser (inluding live streaming in asf, quicktime and real video formats, as well as motion detection, etc. etc)