measuring gas/water (Landis & Gyr B25/ZMF120AC)

[Freemann]

I've read alot about these meters and there troubles of reading out there values.
Now i'm wondering if there is already a "dummy" solution for reading these meters.

So for i now we have the following meters:
Landis & Gyr ZMF120AC

Landis & Gyr B25


Hope that somebody could help me on the way

[Freemann]

Nobody who could help me?

[DJF3]

Are there any LED's on these devices? Where did you hear that there's problems reading these?

DJ

[Freemann]

I read the following post/topics:
http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f ... ndis#p8931
http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f ... dis#p48594
http://domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f ... =30#p48269

There is read that the gas meter is wireless connected to the electric meter. The electric meter send a telegram(formated) message with electric en gas measurements/usages.

I also read that you can readout the electric meter and/or gas meter with the P0 connection. The P0 on the gas meter is behind a "warranty" sticker, on my electric meter i can't find a P0 connection.

In the above topics i read that people need to ask permission to read out there P0 connections, the made/ordered/modified (special) cables to readout the P0 etc.etc.

The electric meter had a pulsating led, but i can't read me gas consumption with this led. The problem is thus that i can't read out my gas consumption.

Because i'm very new to this whole domotica/hardware thing, i hoped that people could help me on the way.
I see a lot of puzzle peaces, but can't put them in the right place....

Below i place pic's of my meters:

[Freemann]

Nobody how could help?

[Henk]

This E-meter has an optical P0 port - so you will need an optical sensor with some electronics to read the meter data - in case you get the data you have to find out the format/protocol of the data.

Check this link they did some hacking on those meters http://cees.delaat.net/rp/2007-2008/p33/report.pdf.

In this forum there is know-how on how to get energy data from P1 port - the format of the P1 data protocol is public.

Henk

[Freemann]

The problem is that the E-meter has a infrared LED (P?) that sends a pulse for every Watt and on the gas Meter there are no P? ports available for readings.
Now i only can read my e-meter and not my gas-meter.

And my question is how i can measure my Electric/gas and water (has a reflective "markerwheel") usage.

[Bwired]

check my blog, the same infrared led
http://www.bwired.nl/weblog.asp?id=429

[Freemann]

@Bwired;
thanks, but the problem is that i can read out my gas usage. The electric meter only has a impulse led for electric usage.

I contacted Xemex and got, a few minutes ago, the following great response;
The following text is translated from Dutch to English with Google Translate.

Dear Marco,

Thanks for your mail response to the smart meters in your cupboard.
These are used by your network operator Stedin automatically read and the information is passed to your supplier. This would be available to you to make.

The meter in your meter box is not for seeing a local port where you can easily connect as a consumer. As of 1/1/2012, all meters are rolled out with a local port (port P1 or HAN).

For your meter is not a smart link available now, but there are optical pulse and readers. As EnyMate.nl or Wattcher.nl (see http://www.energiemanagement.nl/energie ... iemanager/)

For the P1 gate meters are various solutions in the making, but you need a port to P1, which is to apply;

We hope you can continue this some.

Sincerely,
..........

When i look at the Stedin website, the can install a new smart meter with a P1 port for both Electric and Gas.
The cost are €72,= incl. vat. (should i pay this?)

If i do this, what meter would i ask for or could i expect?

[Henk]

Have a look at http://www.pleinplus.nl/nieuws/artikel/ ... rt_in_2014 so if you can't wait a couple of years to get a smart meter without any cost go ahead and get a P1 energy meter within three months.

Stedin will decide the vendor of P1 meter you will get .... three different meter vendors has been selected and the P1 port should be compatible.

Next step is to get the P1 cable and a way to communicatie based on the RS232 signal with your computer and converting the P1 data into your application ..some technical skills is useful in this forum several members got it already working

Henk

[Freemann]

Just called with Stedin and the customer service representative and was not familiar with the P1 port and associated laws.
As far as he knows, it is not intended that a consumer can read the meter through these ports.

After a telephone call of 20min. he finally advised me to fill out a contact form with all the information i got (email communications, websites,pdf, etc).

Does anybody hear has good information (laws, experiences, documentation, etc etc on this subject), so i can sent this to Stedin.

[edit]
after some searching on the internet, i found the documents:
kamerbrief-ontwerpbesluit-op-afstand-uitleesbare-meetinrichtingen

besluit-op-afstand-uitleesbare-meetinrichtingen/besluit-op-afstand-uitleesbare-meetinrichtingen
in this last document i found the following articles:

Artikel 4
1. Een meetinrichting voor elektriciteit is geschikt om:
a. het actuele vermogen in Watt te registreren, weer te geven en uit te wisselen
met een applicatie als bedoeld in het vierde lid,
b. de actuele meterstand in kWh voor de van het net afgenomen en verbruikte
elektriciteit en voor de op het net ingevoede elektriciteit voor de verschillende
tariefperioden te registreren, weer te geven en uit te wisselen met een applicatie als
bedoeld in het vierde lid

Artikel 4 lid 4
4. Een meetinrichting voor elektriciteit is geschikt om daarop applicaties aan te
sluiten bij de afnemer en met die applicaties informatie op zodanige wijze uit te
wisselen, dat die uitgewisselde informatie leesbaar en bruikbaar is voor degene die
gerechtigd is tot het verwerken van die informatie.

indicates that is must be possible to connect a device to the smartmeter so you can monitor you energy usage

at the end of this document:

Artikel 13
1. De artikelen 1 tot en met 3, artikel 4, eerste lid, aanhef en onderdelen b tot en met k, vierde, vijfde en zevende lid, artikel 5, eerste lid, aanhef en onderdelen a, b, d tot en met g, en vierde tot en met zesde lid, en de artikelen 6 tot en met 12 treden in werking met ingang van 1 januari 2012. 2. De overige artikelen van dit besluit treden in werking op een bij koninklijk besluit te bepalen tijdstip, dat voor de verschillende artikelen of onderdelen daarvan verschillend kan worden vastgesteld.

The next document describes the architecture of the meter:
architectuur_analyse_van_de_slimme_meter

The tendor offer (de aanbesteding) requirements:
http://www.energiened.nl/_upload/bestel ... 20Main.pdf

With the PX descriptions/requirements.


[/edit]

[PietjeNL]

Cause my employer is paying for it i requested a "smart" meter by Stedin.
No information yet about a place date, but ill keep u all posted.
Hope it has a P1 port on it that i can try to read out.

[Freemann]

Keep me posted!


I've contacted Stedin with there contact form, and got a response on my questions:
02 februari 2012 10:33 (translated by translate.google, its a bit messy)

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When last I want to ask me a substantive response. preferably by mail, to send out at least the
answered in the following words:
1. Why are your customer service staff is not aware of these matters?
2. What type of Electricity and Gas meters provide you with at this moment?
3. Are these meters provide a working port P1 and activated?
4. Is this port P1 to the consumer physically open and accessible?
5. Does this port at least make it possible to read:
    a Current electricity consumption?
    b. Current gas consumption?
6. Can I use it to measure my water consumption in the future?
7. At what time you get this gauge locations on the specified address?
8. What costs are associated with this replacement?
9 I would like to receive, in advance, all available documentation of these meters showing:
   a. that they are a by means of the gate P1 to read out its
   b. What value can be read and how often
   c. How this reading is done (used protocol) and the requirement of ("thirtparty") soft / hardware

There "response":
6 februari 2012 13:22 (translated by translate.google, its a bit messy)

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We gladly respond to your e-mail 02/02/2012 10:33 which you indicate that you have a question about the smart meters.

Smart meters are placed with a P4 port. This makes it possible the meters to be read from the outside. If you want to retrieve meter readings from your PC then we recommend this to contact your supplier. Stedin provides this service. You can request this service from your supplier.

Want to know more? On our website you will find answers to frequently asked questions: www.stedin.net.

We trust to have informed you sufficiently.

Sincerely,

The don't getting it.....

My response on Stedin's response:
6 februari 2012 13:45 (translated by translate.google, its a bit messy)

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best,

You have not answered my question.
My question is not whether you extradite meter I have with my PC can read.
I ask if you, as you are legally obliged, now extradite meters with a physically available and being activated P1 and / or HAN port.

Also I had you (attached) asking for written answers to several questions. Unfortunately, I miss the answer to these questions.

I like to hear from you and see the whole questioning please read the attachment.

I had no response yet on my last email (hoping to get it today, based on there 2 working day response policy).

[Henk]

Smart meters is a new product/services for the energy companies and most employees are not familiar with the possibilities, so don't expect smart answers or spending too much energy to get formal statements. It needs time and it will come to get a smart meter adopted as a household device all kinds of little gateways and apps will pop up in the future. Up to now the customer was not allowed even to touch the energy meters at all. (except for weed production) The energy companies will start delivery complete (closed) systems with a local energy consumption presentation - like Eneco with the Toon thermostat.
Customer interfacing the P1 port of the smart meter by themselves will be sporadic, most of them you will find on this forum. So go ahead get the smart meters , get the cable - check how a RS232 interface on your system is working - figure out the protocol layout and in this forum you will find already a lot of information ..... and finally be proud you are a pioneer and don't expect any support of your energy provider.

Henk

[PietjeNL]

Tuesday morning they are coming to install the "smart" meter.
It has a P1 port, that's confirmed.

Already 2 college's have a installation failed, 1 cause of wrong couplings, the other one because they "hang" the gasmeter between the incoming pipe and the one that goes into the house (meter isn't attached to a braced)
In there case Alliander needs to come and fix it them self instead of a sub contractor.